Thank you for this advice -- super for me thinking while swimming.

You are welcome.

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Hey Andrew. I've got a couple of questions for you that I'm almost embarrassed to ask as they seem so basic (but likely so fundamental) I skipped over them teaching myself to swim & it's now hurting my progress.


A little background: I've been in & around water my whole life (53yo), but started *competitive* swimming a year ago as part of finding triathlon. I've self taught from threads like yours & SnappingT's here on ST, YouTube, podcasts, etc. I got to ~1:40/100y pace over 1k+yds in 25y pool with buoyancy shorts last year & carried that over into my three OW wetsuit races (a sprint & two Olympics). I did this while carrying a 1.5yr long non-union broken right clavicle. It was painful & I'm sure affected my stroke development, but it was what it was & wasn't an excuse to not learn, train & compete. My collarbone was rebuilt in late Sept '22 (hip bone graft, plate, screws, etc.) & I was forced out of the water for 12weeks while recovering & rebuilding ROM & strength. I've just been able to get back in the water 3ish weeks ago. Knowing my fore/aft balance (i.e., drag) was being band-aided by the buoyancy shorts, wetsuit or a pull-buoy when I used them last year, I've focused on not using any of those aids since getting back to the pool.


Fore/Aft balance: I've read your earlier posts about pushing your chest deeper in the water to help get your body more level. I also read the posts about arching your back by pushing your belly deeper in relation to your chest and ankles. I tried both approaches last week & both resulted in dramatic speed increases via assumed drag reduction; dramatic as in from ~1:50/100 pace to ~1:20/100 pace dramatic, i.e., huge improvement.


For me, pushing my chest down was easier muscularly but also came with an uncomfortable amount of water in my mouth at least every other breath, if not every breath, which punched my anxiety & heart rate way up creating a negative impact on my endurance. To get my breaths as "clean" as I could, it seems to entail either more head rotation, more body rotation, and/or more head elevation while breathing (both goggle lenses out of the water). I learned to keep my vision down early on last year, as it was easy to feel the drag of high head angle, so I'm reluctant to lift my head at all.


Arching my back (belly down, feet up) is definitely harder for me but allows cleaner one-goggle lens in the water breathing.


First question is: any comments on the above?


Second question: Going all the way back to the basics (that I'm now confident I skipped over getting started)... should I be able to float on my stomach, legs up, "balanced", without moving? I seem to recall seeing a video of someone doing this & I was impressed. I remember trying it (last year) & being completely unsuccessful leading me to think it must have been a parlor trick. The 2% smarter me today is now pretty sure I "passed Go & didn't collect $200" and I'm more draggy because of it. What do you think?

Hope your collarbone is on the mend!

Great to see that you’ve made some really big improvements. That’s awesome.

It sounds like you’re definitely on the right track. Everyone is built a little differently, and while the principles remain consistent from person to person, the specific application and what YOU have to do to make it work are going to be a little different.

Rather than thinking about the two strategies as either/or figure how to apply the concepts for you in a way that feels easiest and is fastest. Your lungs are what allow you to float. If you’re not creating support from them, you’ll struggle with your position. Additionally, if you don’t have the tension in your back/legs to hold them up, you’re not going to be able to create an effective position either. How to manage that combination for you is what’s important, and it sounds like you’re figuring that out.

This exercise works on that combination. You establish some stability and then you have to create tension in the back and legs to raise the legs up. If this is manageable, work on doing it in an ‘I’ position instead of an ‘X’ for more of a challenge.

https://www.youtube.com/...61BKXeA&index=23

If you’re feeling really weak in the lower back/hips, doing some of the exercises on land that Klehner recommended could be helpful.

Some people, because of their anatomy, are going to be anatomy are going to be able to float right on the surface. And some are not. While there is skill involved and anyone can improve, for some, the final product will be better than others. The bigger issue is being able to establish a level of comfort in the water and being able to work to manage position. Working to improve in this area is worth it. Rather than ‘starting over’ just consistently incorporate some of this type of work into your practices.

Hope that helps!

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Thanks for your feedback & link to your videos Andrew. And, I understand what you're saying about what's best for me might not be exactly "this" but something close. This all helps and, yes, I have more work to do to find my balance.

My pleasure. Checkout some of the other exercises on that playlist. Improving at several different ones will be of valuable in addition to getting really good at one or two.

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

I’m not a fast swimmer, but I can float. I learned in scuba diving that you can exhale a little and breath in again. This expands your lungs so you hold more air. Personally, I’ve found while swimming if I do this at the beginning of a swim I float better. Of course once I’m into the swim I try to exhale and inhale the same volume.

Does this make sense or is it a placebo affect?

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Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

Hello Andrew,

I'm 41, started to learn swimming probably 5 years ago. prior to that I was never able to swim 10m in pool or open water. I had a good Tri coach and worked quite hard with him with few sessions plus swimming two times or so a week. I was able to swim for 1 hour or so in the pool but always very tiring and very slow, my main issue is the technique in general and breathing is my biggest thing.
I stopped for almost two years due to COVID, being lazy ...etc. and I'm back in the pool now. I did two Tri races but I always keep myself in the enticer distance and most of the time I'm the last one on the swim (300m) almost 3:00/100m

I wonder what direction I should go here?

Should I have a dedicated swim classes? I asked the Tri club coach and he advised me to come down to the pool and join the training it may help but I'm not too sure is doing drills with other swimmers would help or have specific lessons?

Also, in my age and abilitiy how many swims I should to improve? I would like to improve my swim so I'm not drained after a 1km swim with enough rests!

appreciate any guidance.

Ahmed

Sure. More air is going to help. That's one of the reasons that getting control of your breathing is important.

If someone is unable to regulate their breathing while swimming, not only are they going to have to try to swim while breathing frantically, they'll also ride lower in the water, making the whole situation even worse.

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Hi Ahmed,

If you want to improve, the biggest thing is to start looking for solutions, which is what you’re doing.

I would give the Tri Club training a shot. While it may or may not be optimal for you, you’ll have some external accountability and feedback. You’ll also be taking the leap and making the commitment to get better. If it doesn’t work out, you’ll be one step closer to figuring out what will work.

I don’t think your age is relevant, certainly not at your performance level. You can improve significantly. As for how many swims, more exposure is going to be better. You’ll learn and improve faster when you practice more often.

If breathing is a major issue for you, and you’re swimming 3:00/100m, the floating exercises I referenced above, as well as some simple bobbing exercises should help you begin the process of learning to get your breathing under control.

https://www.youtube.com/...61BKXeA&index=10

https://www.youtube.com/...61BKXeA&index=19

While these skills won’t necessarily improve your freestyle directly, although they may, it will be difficult to improve your freestyle without this foundation. These are activities you can work on by yourself.

I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any follow up questions.

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Thanks so much andrew for taking the time to reply. I will give the Tri training a go and see how it's going. Thanks for sharing your videos as well, will practice it.

My pleasure. Best of luck and let me know how it goes.

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

I did my first Masters swim yesterday with a new coach. To fix my technique I now kick...a lot...and hard...lol. My usual 2500-4000 meters was over at 800 meters. I've always been a 2-beat kicker concentrating on 70.3-140.6 racing.

How long does it typically take to develop the muscle fibers, or endurance, to kick strong without being exhausted? My legs start burning 3/4 of the way down a 50 meters pool. It's not long and I'm a total mess and can't even swim easy, let alone hard. I'm 48 y/o male.

---

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

I would think in terms of months not weeks.

As a general rule for the legs, quality is more important than quantity. Over time, build the volume and the duration.

Here are some strategies you could use.

1. If you have control over it, using shorter distances will be more effective. You’ll stand a much better chance of learning to sustain the legs if you get intermittent breaks.

2. Hold the kick until you can’t, then swim with minimal kicking, then add the kick back until you can’t, then swim with minimal kicking, etc.

3. Do #2 preemptively. If you have 8x100s, start with 25 great legs + 75 minimal kicking. When you feel ready, go 50+50, then 75+25, then all 100s.

4. Perform some sets ‘on’, some sets ‘off.

Over time, progressively increase the amount of time you spent fully using the legs. Eventually, you’ll get there. If possible, I would avoid struggling with it. You’re better off doing it really well or not all.

Hope that helps.

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Andrew,
You seem to be responding pretty quickly to others...here's my issue and swim question:
I am pretty sure that I am swimming with flexed quad muscles and when I get from water to bike I'm under biking and then the legs are crampy or ready to cramp come the run.

Can you try to describe how someone should be kicking to propel while not taxing the legs. I feel like my stroke is pretty decent, and my kick is "ok" minus the straining part. I wish I had swam as a kid to get a better feel.

When I do kick sets, my legs are burning by the time I get to the wall and I feel like it takes me forever to get there....45 seconds for a 25 YARDS!

Advice?
(Any knowledgeable swimmers can respond).

Does it happen when you use a pull buoy? If you don’t know, find out.

If it still happens, it’s likely a ‘perpetual tension’ issue rather than a ‘kicking’ issue. You’re going to need to learn how to relax the legs, independent of kicking. I would do some pulling where the only focus is on having ZERO tension in the legs.

If it doesn’t happen when you pull, it’s a result of how you kick.

If that’s the case, you’re going to need to learn how to take the pressure off your legs and minimize the effort you put into kicking.

To do so, you’re going to need to learn use your lungs and/or learn to hold up the legs with the BACK of the legs rather than kicking with the quads.

For the lungs-

https://www.youtube.com/...61BKXeA&index=22

For the legs, superman type exercises per klehner are a good land-based version.

This exercises below combines the lungs and leg lifting concept.

https://www.youtube.com/...61BKXeA&index=23

After practicing these skills, working on controlling your torso to keep everything in line, while kicking as little as possible, with as little tension as possible.

I’m not sure exactly what you will need to do to get the legs to let go. However, if you learn to control your position in the water with your torso, that gives you the best chance. If the buoy works, practice with that as well so you can FEEL the lack of tension, then try to re-create that sensation when swimming.

Once you can do that, start adding some intensity back into the swimming WITHOUT picking up the legs.

If you can figure how to get the cramping to go away by kicking less, THEN you can worry about figuring how to kick normally without cramping. Minimizing the kick probably won’t hurt your swimming. However, crampy legs WILL kill the bike/run. First things first.

If none of that works, or if you want to try something unorthodox from the start. I have several swimmers who swear by mustard packets to prevent cramping (seriously). I think it works similar to the mechanism as the product Hotshot, but much cheaper. Worth a shot if you can stomach it!

Let me know if that makes sense. Give it a shot and let me know how it goes.

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Hi Andrew, have really appreciated your tips etc in this post.
Was just wondering if you have any advice for working on the "back half" of the stroke as such.
By way of background, adult onset swimmer, CSS currently around 1:30/100m long course. Swim with a great squad.
Recently, whilst swimming with some faster squad members, I was struggling to hang onto the toes of our lane lead.
For whatever reason, on our last lot of 100's I focused on completing the back end of the stroke and pushing my palm towards the back of the pool behind me.
It seemed to make a massive difference, whereby I was able to hold onto his toes and it just felt like I was cruising.
It seemed I was not really completing the stroke properly and potentially losing 4-5 secs/100m just by exiting too early etc.
I was wondering if this is something you see commonly, and if you have any drills or tips you recommend for that portion of the stroke?
I certainly feel it in my triceps more and also certainly feel a lot more connection between my hips, my kick and my shoulders with this.
So far the boost in pace seems to hold in my subsequent sessions, I certainly feel that "push" in my triceps.

Before you read anything else after this, remember this key takeaway- keep doing what you’re doing!

This is a great example of why it’s so important to keep track of performance as often as possible using stroke counts and speed (or in your case noticing that you were more easily keeping up).

Subjective, it felt like you were ‘cruising’, yet objectively you were swimming much faster. If you weren’t paying attention to performance, you wouldn’t have noticed the improvement.

That’s why it’s CRITICAL to pay attention to performance, even if the focus is on skill. You never know what you’ll pick up by chance. The more you pay attention, the more often this happens.

So, keep doing what you’re doing as it appears to be repeatable. HOWEVER, if you notice that the strategy does not consistently work from an objective perspective, then you may be overdoing it.

Relative to your question…

I see a lot of people that pull wide and slide out to the side, especially in the back end of the stroke. Doing so takes the pressure off the water and doesn’t do much for propulsion. This likely happens because it’s easier to do. People don’t have the strength, the fitness, etc to hold the back of their stroke. Sliding out of the side also allows for a faster stroke rate because it take less time, and that ‘feels’ faster to many.

Fixing it is mostly just a focus on pulling straight back. For many that might FEEL like they are crossing over under their body or puling really far back.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, a ‘full’ pull does not include full extension of the elbow. You almost never see this in elite freestylers. HOWEVER, my guess is that you’re not actually do that, it just FEELS like it, so keep doing what you’re doing.

An exercise like this is good as a basic starting point for learning how to just focus on pulling back. You can do it with or without a buoy. At first a buoy can be helpful because you can focus on the arm action rather than worrying about body position. I like to have people work on lowering their stroke count with an exercise like this as it forces them to do something different. You can also pair it with some of the different hand/paddle positions I’ve mentioned earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/...nJxa2W_&index=10

That’s a good start point, and you can progress things from there. I always suggest people mix in regular freestyle to recreate the same sensations.

Hope that helps,

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

That's fantastic advice thanks Andrew!!
The squad I swim in uses Tempo Trainers for everything basically so I always have a good gauge in relation to how I am going, plus I am a bit of a data nerd.
I agree re what you say about the triceps, I think it is more just feeling like it is coming into play and being used now when it was not really being used before.
The drill looks great, I will be sure to try that when I am on my own in the pool!!
I will keep you posted as to how the times are tracking, but presenting when swimming around threshold intensity I am 3-4 sec/100m faster.
Today will be interesting as it is an endurance set and so I will be able to get a good idea how I cope with that on my current CSS time. If things are as expected, I should hopefully be making any target times with a little bit gas left in the tank!

Those "power pulls" are basically the breaststroke underwater pullout done over and over on the surface. IMO this is yet another argument for learning all 4 strokes in their "competitive form", e.g. very few "casual" breaststroke swimmers do the proper underwater pullout and first stroke. They just don't realize how much faster you are under the water. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Yep. That’s exactly it. The reason I like them on the surface is that they slow you down, allowing you to get a lot more repetitions in over a short period of time.

Once someone has a basic handle on freestyle, there’s definite value in learning other strokes because you learn to apply the same basic principles in similar yet slightly different ways. Of course, when time and energy are limited, that can become tough to commit to.

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Good stuff.

Relative to you last comment, another value in keeping track of everything is that you can compare your speed to your effort. It’s not always about going faster. If you can go the same speed, but it’s easier, whether just perception or confirmed via lower heart rates, that’s a big win. This is especially true when the race isn’t over after the swim. If one isn’t keeping track, they’ll never even know.

Tempo trainers are great. While I’m not sure exactly how you use it, a cool trick is to set the stroke rate at something appropriate, then try to descend at the same stroke rate. Something like this.

6x100 Descend 1-3/4-6 all at the same stroke rate

The only way to go faster is to be more efficient with your stroke. You can also go faster by being more efficient off the walls. Even in triathlon where there are no walls, learning to create speed through better alignment is a good thing. It can be done over any distances and with any stroke rate.

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

I noticed that when I am swimming freestyle I have a tendency to fishtail slightly. What I mean is, when I am extending the right arm, my legs will be a little to the left of my centerline and my toes are not pointing directly behind me. It's not a major swing, but I assume it increases drag and indicates an inefficiency in my stroke. Any ideas as to what might cause it?

My guess is that it is a result of two flaws in my stroke. First, I have a tendency enter my hand just a little too close to the centerline. I'm not crossing over my head, but I'm not 100 percent in line with my shoulder; my hand is just a little closer to my head than I think it should be. I figure that could introduce a little side-to-side action.

The other flaw that I am working on is in my catch. My elbow angle is a little too wide and so my hand is outside where it should be, especially in the initial part of the pull. I'd say my elbow angle in the pull is 120-25 degrees rather than the 100-110 that I think is preferable. Maybe the outside in motion of my hand during the pull causes my legs to sway?

I'm no expert, so these are just guesses. Any input is welcome.

I think you’re definitely on the right track.

‘Wiggling’, whether subtle or extreme, is always going to be a reaction to something else you’re doing.

With the hand entry it’s not just where it enters, but the path to get there. The momentum wide, low recovery is much more likely to cause the shoulders to go along for the ride, and the hips to go in the opposite direction, giving you the sway. In contrast, a more direct recovery won’t have that same problem. An entry close to the center can cause it, and a wide path to the same entry will make it worse.

Pushing out during the beginning of the stroke can also push the shoulders to the side, with the hips moving in the other direction.

The more direct the arm recoveries and the more direct the pulling actions, the less likely you are to experience alignment issues.

I wrote a brief article about it for 220Triathlon. If you search ‘wiggling 220Triathlon’ it should come up.

Sometimes what the head is doing can cause problems with the arms, which leads to the other stuff.

Hope that helps.

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

I'm an adult onset swimmer who has been at it for about 5 years. My first year or two I got some lessons, improved my fitness significantly and then rather plateaued. Since then I've been using lots of different videos and suggestions from folks to improve but hadn't seen a whole lot of growth overall. To be clear, I could certainly finish 1,000 yard swim a bit faster than I could 4 years ago but that was mostly down to just being fitter overall.

This past season I had 2 downright terrible open water swims to start of triathlons, one being my first 70.3. That swim was so bad that I rolled onto my back for a while, got out with quad spasms and considered just calling the race done at that point. I didn't and the rest of the race went well but these two swims made me decide that I needed to change. After taking a bit of time out of the pool to get my head right around it I started back up with my usual 3 swims per week for about 2 months with a focus on a few areas that I thought I needed to work on. These included improving my body rotation, my catch and working on being 'taut'--ie keeping my body long and straight rather than wet noodling it. I did a bunch of drills each workout -- much more than previously to focus on these areas.

Since then I've jumped into a masters swim group. The masters workouts have been great, have made me work on other strokes which seems to be helping my freestyle as well. This past week, in working on 'endurance freestyle' the coach focused on a couple of ideas. 1.(for myself and one other) improving our shoulder angle in the reach part of the stroke to extend further upon entry into the water 2. Building a 2 beat kick 3. Working on a 'gallop stroke'. For one reason or another the reach seemed to click pretty well for me and I was told that my stroke immediately looked much better! Moving into part 2 and 3 this seemed to continue, which is great. The questions that I have are:
1. How do I make sure that I am consistently 'reaching' to the right degree
2. How on earth do I keep this 2 beat kick without fins? It feels like my legs will sink without the movement.
3. Should I use the 'gallop' stroke, which feels good (and fast) all the time or should I build in time to practice that as well as the long, slow, stretchy version?
4. I've been avoiding doing math and tracking times this week with the idea that I may need to cement these skills before I worry about time and improvement. Is this the right approach and if so, how long do I avoid the clock and just focus on technique?

Lots of questions. Feel free to answer any that interest you!

thanks