Apparently in the volunteer meetings for IMTX it was stated that the on-course hydration would be Mortal Hydration and not Gatorade Endurance. That info has not been reflected for the various race specific websites yet but people have posted screenshots on Facebook from the volunteer meeting for IMTX.
The first two races are in two weeks at Oceanside 70.3 and Galveston (Texas 70.3). The athlete guides both just mention the generic "Electrolyte Drink."
A) Who has ever heard of Mortal Hydration?, and B) Mortal Hydration has more sodium than Gatorade Endurance but nowhere near the carbs or calories (40 cal/24 ounces vs 180 cal/24 ounces).
Also, those two 70.3 races are in two weeks and IMTX is in five weeks. People haven't trained with Mortal Hydration. Someone relying on the on-course nutrition and have game planned for Gatorade Endurance has to pivot to something else they've never tried and has nowhere near the same level of calories and carbs.
Just created a similar thread - rumor mill spreads fast!
I am curious how they will dispense mortal hydration since I believe all they have is powder. I have used Mortal by chance to get a different taste in rotation. The Raspberry is really good. They do have an extra salty, and normal formula. The extra salty is good for a pre-load of sorts. The change definitely throws a loop into nailing my hydration/nutrtion as I actually can tolerate Gatorade Endurance rather well. IG: NCGregory8778
Yikes, wonder what that sponsorship contract looks like. One way to go from no name brand to being used. I noticed gatorade products are no longer on the feed, wonder if something has changed from their marketing or sales or just coincidence.
10g carb won’t cut it for some ag triathletes that don’t understand nutrition, could really lead to disaster. Will it be premixed, will athletes have to mix? What flavors (they seem to offer way more variety than gatorade with different mixtures of sodium)? My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist
I noticed Rock n Roll Vegas had Mortal Hydration last month when my wife ran it. Thought that was interesting. Their aid stations were marketed as The Feed aid stations so IM must be working with them.
Also, one of the many marketing emails from The Feed has a sample pack for Mortal Hydration. I am guessing this will be announced soon.
Looks like Mortal Hydration has different flavors, the base being 10g/carb with 450mg sodium and the salty being 10g carb with 920g sodium per serving. Maybe IM will be bringing in actual bike bottles (with The Feed printed on them of course). Todd Suttor
Working Triathlete Elite Development Team Professional Triathlete Instagram
Oof. I don't love that if they don't have a real carby option available. Not entirely surprising as Gatorade endurance options have been getting slimmer and slimmer. Seems that they've been tapering off that side of their products. Too bad as I actually think all of their options were really good but are becoming harder to find. Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
I feel bad for the folks that are relying on on-course nutrition thinking they'll be getting carbs. I predict a lot of blowups in Galveston and The Woodlands.
I feel bad for the folks that are relying on on-course nutrition thinking they'll be getting carbs. I predict a lot of blowups in Galveston and The Woodlands.
I am not a fan of Maurten gels either. First one of those was my last attempt at on-course nutrition.
Does that mean the bottle size and diameter will change?
I find it funny in a sad way that water bottle cages are set around the standard bottle size for 30y ago. A bottle you buy with nothing in it is still the same size, but as soon as a company is filling that bottle with something it gets smaller and smaller and smaller.
It seems Mortal has found a further way to reduce cost by using less sugar. I'm sure it's marketed as a healthy alternative to those high sugar drinks of yesteryear.
OF FUCKING COURSE they swap to something with Stevia in it.
God dammit. What the fuck are we doing!??!?!?!?!
(Note: the above post is my personal opinion and does not reflect my position or the editorial view of Slowtwitch). ---------------------------------- Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
2 obviously more important than 1. Especially given the amount of white on the ST kits. ---------------------------------- Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
What is this stuff? Is this stuff for kids? Just based on the website, there is nothing on there that immediately tells me this is a sports drink. It just looks very childish.
How much did they pay IM to get this? Has IM not been paying attention to any of the latest nutrition trends (high carbs… 60+ g Cho/hr)?
This is a big fat strikeout for this new CEO. How long until this is reversed? Something tells me this will be fixed by St. George. But unfortunately not earlier.
Everyone needs to get a plan together to fuel their own race and not rely on aid stations. blog
Oof. I don't love that if they don't have a real carby option available. Not entirely surprising as Gatorade endurance options have been getting slimmer and slimmer. Seems that they've been tapering off that side of their products. Too bad as I actually think all of their options were really good but are becoming harder to find.
I agree. I'm a big fan of Gatorade endurance, but it's not very easy to get. The normal Gatorade is everywhere but it's not as ideally suited. I like the added salts and the 50/50 glucose fructose mix in endurance.
If anything I think the marketing team over Gatorsde endurance has just done a poor job across the board. From distribution to conveying strength of the product.
I mix my own nutrition and take water on the course but this seems like a very stupid decision. I wonder if they bothered to ask a single customer about this change? Doubtful
If by chance one of my nutrition bottles ejects itself, I’d be screwed. I’d have to grab a dozen gels and salt tabs and stuff them in my pockets in addition to their “sports drinkâ€
OF FUCKING COURSE they swap to something with Stevia in it.
God dammit. What the fuck are we doing!??!?!?!?!
(Note: the above post is my personal opinion and does not reflect my position or the editorial view of Slowtwitch).
Just posting once anyone needs to know:
Stevia is a sweetener that has 100x the palette sweetness of table sugar. It's used in low calorie foods to make them taste sweeter and have less sugar. A product prevalent to help people who crave sugar eat less calories.
You know, exactly the things that you want in a sports endurance drink, maximal sweetness, minimal calories.
OF FUCKING COURSE they swap to something with Stevia in it.
God dammit. What the fuck are we doing!??!?!?!?!
(Note: the above post is my personal opinion and does not reflect my position or the editorial view of Slowtwitch).
Just posting once anyone needs to know:
Stevia is a sweetener that has 100x the palette sweetness of table sugar. It's used in low calorie foods to make them taste sweeter and have less sugar. A product prevalent to help people who crave sugar eat less calories.
You know, exactly the things that you want in a sports endurance drink, maximal sweetness, minimal calories.
Can't wait for Dr Harrison to chime in.
At a certain point your body processes these other sweeteners as if it just sugar. So don't drink diet often. Otherwise your body adapts. Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
I'm not that cynical. It's *probably* just a new partnership.
FWIW, most other races still very prominently say Gatorade Endurance will be on course. One can only hope. ---------------------------------- Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Looks like, Becca, the CEO and founder, grew up swimming and races bicycles. Looks like she writes for Bicycle Magazine?? Or at least has some articles for them. You can see their logo on the bottom of the drink website as well. Big win for her on the marketing. Personally, I hate Gatorade so I'm open to try it before bashing it. https://www.bicycling.com/...13817/becca-schepps/
Looks like, Becca, the CEO and founder, grew up swimming and races bicycles. Looks like she writes for Bicycle Magazine?? Or at least has some articles for them. You can see their logo on the bottom of the drink website as well. Big win for her on the marketing. Personally, I hate Gatorade so I'm open to try it before bashing it. https://www.bicycling.com/...13817/becca-schepps/
Seems like an awful decision from IM. Gatorade is the most popular electrolyte drink out there & is packed with carbs. Easy to test out in training & then use on race day. Whatever the agreement was, I'm sure Gatorade doesn't feel like they need to advertise with athletes. Non-athletes drink the stuff like water. IM should've given into whatever they wanted out of the partnership to keep things easy on their racers.
You need to do an article on this and advocate for us! I agree 100% with the sentiment of your first post in this thread. Please! David * Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law * Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
What is this stuff? Is this stuff for kids? Just based on the website, there is nothing on there that immediately tells me this is a sports drink. It just looks very childish.
How much did they pay IM to get this? Has IM not been paying attention to any of the latest nutrition trends (high carbs… 60+ g Cho/hr)?
This is a big fat strikeout for this new CEO. How long until this is reversed? Something tells me this will be fixed by St. George. But unfortunately not earlier.
Everyone needs to get a plan together to fuel their own race and not rely on aid stations.
That website is so god damn cringeworthy. Took me a minute to even realize they do anything other than kombucha.
OF FUCKING COURSE they swap to something with Stevia in it.
God dammit. What the fuck are we doing!??!?!?!?!
(Note: the above post is my personal opinion and does not reflect my position or the editorial view of Slowtwitch).
Just posting once anyone needs to know:
Stevia is a sweetener that has 100x the palette sweetness of table sugar. It's used in low calorie foods to make them taste sweeter and have less sugar. A product prevalent to help people who crave sugar eat less calories.
You know, exactly the things that you want in a sports endurance drink, maximal sweetness, minimal calories.
Can't wait for Dr Harrison to chime in.
At a certain point your body processes these other sweeteners as if it just sugar. So don't drink diet often. Otherwise your body adapts.
Kind of correct, but missing the big point. The purpose of sweeteners like this (and most famously aspartame) is that they are so much sweeter than sugar that you only need a tiny amount to get the same taste. Doesn't matter if your body can utilize it fully if there's only a few grams in each bottle.
What is this stuff? Is this stuff for kids? Just based on the website, there is nothing on there that immediately tells me this is a sports drink. It just looks very childish.
How much did they pay IM to get this? Has IM not been paying attention to any of the latest nutrition trends (high carbs… 60+ g Cho/hr)?
This is a big fat strikeout for this new CEO. How long until this is reversed? Something tells me this will be fixed by St. George. But unfortunately not earlier.
Everyone needs to get a plan together to fuel their own race and not rely on aid stations.
What is this stuff? Is this stuff for kids? Just based on the website, there is nothing on there that immediately tells me this is a sports drink. It just looks very childish.
How much did they pay IM to get this? Has IM not been paying attention to any of the latest nutrition trends (high carbs… 60+ g Cho/hr)?
This is a big fat strikeout for this new CEO. How long until this is reversed? Something tells me this will be fixed by St. George. But unfortunately not earlier.
Everyone needs to get a plan together to fuel their own race and not rely on aid stations.
Thanks to everyone commenting on this thread. I am supposed to go to Oceanside and been waffling due to lack of training and was considering still doing it as a supported touring outing. But if they supporting me with the near zero carb option, I better figure out how I will get suffcient calories in. I normally just rely on three bottles of Gatorade Endurance and a bar for a half IM and take a few gels on the run course complimented with whatever gatordade or coke. I guess with this stuff I will need to take some of my own gels on the bike to get carbs up
I'm not that cynical. It's *probably* just a new partnership.
FWIW, most other races still very prominently say Gatorade Endurance will be on course. One can only hope.
Ryan, you know damn well IM uses prior year placeholder info and copy and paste jobs for all their race websites and update them when it gets closer to race day or whenever they get around to it. Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
They could be using the Drink Death drink at the end of the race, handing out as options, like they do Athletic Brew, Chocolate Milk, etc... Could be an over reaction on slowtwitch.com, as crazy as that sounds. http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com
Terrible decision for the athletes, if this turns out to be true (and if it is true I’d like to see a front page article interviewing IM about their logic and reasoning).
On the outset, seeing a thread like this seems to also indicate negative backlash potential against Mortal as a product (and I know all press is good but) I’m not sure they would want this (even if our group is of a particularly small minority).
They could be using the Drink Death drink at the end of the race, handing out as options, like they do Athletic Brew, Chocolate Milk, etc... Could be an over reaction on slowtwitch.com, as crazy as that sounds.
Screenshots from the volunteer meeting and emails clearly list it as being the hydration offering at both the bike and run aid station. Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Looking at the Drink Mortal IG page, looks like they released their drink mix on January 17th this year, so a little over 2 months ago.. bet it is tried and tested by dozens! I wonder if IM got dropped by Gatorade and had to find a quick alternative? Todd Suttor
Working Triathlete Elite Development Team Professional Triathlete Instagram
Thankfully tailwind makes those single serving packs. Might start mixing them with course water the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning
What is this stuff? Is this stuff for kids? Just based on the website, there is nothing on there that immediately tells me this is a sports drink. It just looks very childish.
How much did they pay IM to get this? Has IM not been paying attention to any of the latest nutrition trends (high carbs… 60+ g Cho/hr)?
This is a big fat strikeout for this new CEO. How long until this is reversed? Something tells me this will be fixed by St. George. But unfortunately not earlier.
Everyone needs to get a plan together to fuel their own race and not rely on aid stations.
Thanks to everyone commenting on this thread. I am supposed to go to Oceanside and been waffling due to lack of training and was considering still doing it as a supported touring outing. But if they supporting me with the near zero carb option, I better figure out how I will get suffcient calories in. I normally just rely on three bottles of Gatorade Endurance and a bar for a half IM and take a few gels on the run course complimented with whatever gatordade or coke. I guess with this stuff I will need to take some of my own gels on the bike to get carbs up
Just grab and use more maurten's it's like your making money.
I use my own mix on the bike and go to coke and maurten's and water on the run. but that's just me. Once the Gatorade comes up a time or two it's hard to want to use it ever again, same with any product.
Maybe enough people have puked up the Gatorade by now that they saw little being used at the aid stations? Plus $$$. Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance. http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
Interestingly, earlier this week the IM tracker app for Oceanside (and I think Galveston also) had the run aid stations clearly identified with Mortal Hydration logo/branding on the tracker’s course map. Those logos no longer appear on the tracker today. Team Saunders on YouTube
Special needs is going to be busy with people dropping extra bottles in there just to hit their calorie target.
Agreed, this seems to be the best way to mitigate this disaster of a decision. I can’t even begin to comprehend why they’d go with a lower carb drink. I am not happy about this at all
I mix my own nutrition and take water on the course but this seems like a very stupid decision. I wonder if they bothered to ask a single customer about this change? Doubtful
If by chance one of my nutrition bottles ejects itself, I’d be screwed. I’d have to grab a dozen gels and salt tabs and stuff them in my pockets in addition to their “sports drinkâ€
This happened to me this year in IM Chatt. Lost both of my nutrition bottles less than like 10 minutes from special needs. I had to use a mix of both Gatorade and gels to get my carb needs. Would have been pretty awful to do the whole things on gels, especially since I also use maurten on the run as it is available on course.
Terrible decision for the athletes, if this turns out to be true (and if it is true I’d like to see a front page article interviewing IM about their logic and reasoning).
On the outset, seeing a thread like this seems to also indicate negative backlash potential against Mortal as a product (and I know all press is good but) I’m not sure they would want this (even if our group is of a particularly small minority).
I'm pretty $ure I under$tand Mdot'$ logic and rea$oning.
I’m sitting here smiling at the recollection of the Polish Ironman licensee using a ZERO calorie drink for on course hydration in Ironman Gdynia because that’s what the sponsor wanted to promote that year. "FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
This reminds me of professionals being seen running around with Red Bull. No serious athlete uses Red Bull for actual athletics.
Why? what's wrong with water, sugar (20 grams per can) and caffeine? I am a very serious athlete, mind. "FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
This reminds me of professionals being seen running around with Red Bull. No serious athlete uses Red Bull for actual athletics.
Why? what's wrong with water, sugar (20 grams per can) and caffeine? I am a very serious athlete, mind.
Not pink text in any way, I know plenty of pro and pseudo pro cycling guys who drink the cheapest red bull knock off the current gas station has in the fridge. Not on a road trip like Joe Trucker, usually before or in the middle of some ridiculous ride. Context is important.
I also know one who drinks hot chocolate in the morning because he doesn't like the taste of coffee, so YMMV
I’m guilty of shotgunning Red Bull in the back half of the marathon at IM. It’s a level up on the Maurten Move and make Stone Cold Steve Austin.
To the original topic - in all seriousness, do we think this would be as big of a change if they still allowed hydration bladders down the jersey? This change to a low calorie, stevia drink has me suddenly needing to change up the hydration plan I’ve been using for the last 5+ years. At least in the past when the hydration was changed (such as from Powerbar perform to Gatorade) the products were very similar in terms of nutrition (specifically calories, CHO, electrolytes). I’m normally not cynical of WTC, but this feels like a money grab without the slightest sense of understanding the customer. IG: NCGregory8778
Red bull is absolutely delicious to me when I'm in the middle of a brutal workout or racing. It's the only thing I ever want at run aid stations.
I've probably drank one total outside of those contexts though. Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
What is this stuff? Is this stuff for kids? Just based on the website, there is nothing on there that immediately tells me this is a sports drink. It just looks very childish.
I have to agree
Fight Death 💀
What?!?
Clearly a half-assed response to "Murder Your Thirst"
It took me while, but I've jumped onto the Liquid Death bandwagon "What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy "Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
When it comes to Tier 1 hydration brands, Ironman going to a brand that might be a house brand of a website is not what I expect from the M Dot. But this isn't the first time they've played around with sponsorship of a smaller company. Move from Gu to Maurten...
But this should be an easy rotation for me. Or is Coca-Cola company not interested in competing in this space?
Tier 1 Electrolyte Hydration Brands
Gatorade
Powerade
Tier 2
Precision Fuel and Hydration
BodyArmor
PRIME
Nuun
Tier 3
Liquid IV
LMNT
Skratch
I ranked these by the rate of which I've seen them spend money. Immortal Hydration is just not even in the conversation. So huge miss here. Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
They could just buy someone's assets & IP, then rebrand them out of existence "What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy "Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
When it comes to Tier 1 hydration brands, Ironman going to a brand that might be a house brand of a website is not what I expect from the M Dot. But this isn't the first time they've played around with sponsorship of a smaller company. Move from Gu to Maurten...
But this should be an easy rotation for me. Or is Coca-Cola company not interested in competing in this space?
Tier 1 Electrolyte Hydration Brands
Gatorade
Powerade
Tier 2
Precision Fuel and Hydration
BodyArmor
PRIME
Nuun
Tier 3
Liquid IV
LMNT
Skratch
I ranked these by the rate of which I've seen them spend money. Immortal Hydration is just not even in the conversation. So huge miss here.
IDGAF about how much they spend on marketing. Is Grey Goose, Miller Lite, or White Claw a good sponsor for on course nutrition? It's a ridiculous metric.
For every 100g water, ~5g sugar, ~0.5g sodium. It's not a mysterious formula. This should be the barrier to entry for a nutrition provider, not a nice add on.
I heard of them earlier this year. Their ingredients are perfect choices for performance. But... please read on. (ie. they us sugar as first ingredient and sodium citrate as the primary sodium source. Both great choices.)
The GMAN wrote:
B) Mortal Hydration has more sodium than Gatorade Endurance but nowhere near the carbs or calories (40 cal/24 ounces vs 180 cal/24 ounces).
Bingo. This is going to be an issue. Over-sodium-ing... not too bad. Under-carb-ing.... catastrophic. Especially when the only option to get more carbs is to consume an enormous amount of sodium to accomplish it.
450mg sodium per 10 grams of carbs means to get the VERY BOTTOM end of carb needs during a 70.3 or 140.6, you're forced to consume 2,250-2,700mg sodium per hour. Overkill for most folks, by a lot.
The GMAN wrote:
People haven't trained with Mortal Hydration. Someone relying on the on-course nutrition and have game planned for Gatorade Endurance has to pivot to something else they've never tried and has nowhere near the same level of calories and carbs.
Anyone know anything?
I'll get Mortal into the Saturday app fuel & hydration product database by EOD today and should have it loaded live for users by EOW at the latest. Saturday (app) will show you how to bump up the sugar. (Hint: you add sugar... or evaporated cane juice, if you like!). Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
When it comes to Tier 1 hydration brands, Ironman going to a brand that might be a house brand of a website is not what I expect from the M Dot. But this isn't the first time they've played around with sponsorship of a smaller company. Move from Gu to Maurten...
But this should be an easy rotation for me. Or is Coca-Cola company not interested in competing in this space?
Tier 1 Electrolyte Hydration Brands
Gatorade
Powerade
Tier 2
Precision Fuel and Hydration
BodyArmor
PRIME
Nuun
Tier 3
Liquid IV
LMNT
Skratch
I ranked these by the rate of which I've seen them spend money. Immortal Hydration is just not even in the conversation. So huge miss here.
IDGAF about how much they spend on marketing. Is Grey Goose, Miller Lite, or White Claw a good sponsor for on course nutrition? It's a ridiculous metric
Fireball is very popular with the off-road crowd; both running AND cycling "What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy "Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
When it comes to Tier 1 hydration brands, Ironman going to a brand that might be a house brand of a website is not what I expect from the M Dot. But this isn't the first time they've played around with sponsorship of a smaller company. Move from Gu to Maurten...
But this should be an easy rotation for me. Or is Coca-Cola company not interested in competing in this space?
Tier 1 Electrolyte Hydration Brands
Gatorade
Powerade
Tier 2
Precision Fuel and Hydration
BodyArmor
PRIME
Nuun
Tier 3
Liquid IV
LMNT
Skratch
I ranked these by the rate of which I've seen them spend money. Immortal Hydration is just not even in the conversation. So huge miss here.
IDGAF about how much they spend on marketing. Is Grey Goose, Miller Lite, or White Claw a good sponsor for on course nutrition? It's a ridiculous metric.
For every 100g water, ~5g sugar, ~0.5g sodium. It's not a mysterious formula. This should be the barrier to entry for a nutrition provider, not a nice add on.
That post-race nutrition though... Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
It's awesome that you're going to get it into your app (not yet a user, but I'm a big fan of your posts here and I've started watching some of your YouTubes). I think the complaint/issue people have with this move is that most people fall into 2 basic categories: 1. They don't use the on course beverage at all. For example, I've often used shot blocks or chomps for calories and something like Nuun in water for my hydration and electrolytes. Others use their own concentrated bottle. 2. They primarily/entirely use the on course beverage (or for 140.6 use it after their own blend runs out). And the problem is for people in category 2. They are going to grab a bottle at an aid station, and it'll taste sweet. They will think they are consuming calories. And after a few hours they will be running on empty. It's generally a given that the drink has a "normal" amount of sugar in it, and this is far below. The problem isn't going to affect anyone reading or commenting on this thread, it's those that aren't. They may not realize it's not providing any calories until it is too late. That said, I'm only looking to do 70.3 and less over the next 5+ years, and I'm planning to try out your sugar water and sodium citrate recipes! :) Thanks for posting, I learn a ton every time!
100% agree. It’s going to be a hypoglycemia-fest. Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
The athlete guide is out for Valencia 70.3. No mention of Gatorade anywhere (and checking other previous events, it’s both mentioned and has adverts in the guide)
Wonder if IM thought of coming out with their own drink
I think it was 2019 when they did launch their own gel and bar brand in Australia. As the Aus Ironman races and NZ are owned by same, then that meant in NZ we got the same Ironman branded on course nutrition. Only slight issue was that for reasons never fully explained then the gels were only on sale direct from them in Aus and they wouldn't ship to NZ. Yep, so there was no way to test the nutrition until mid January (race was 1st March). And the gels were the most vomit inducing texture/taste you could imagine. They also swapped drinks nutrition very very late and changed flavour of drink in the race week. Sadly that meant too late to test under full load and of course whilst I tried it in that last week, under stress then I found that it caused an allergic reaction on teh run (I used own stuff on bike) and so there is still a patch of bare earth beside the course where the acid from my stomach killed the grass as I called Huey for 5 minutes.
They used to use Horleys over here, which actually was pretty good, but not helpful noting the high proportion of overseas athletes that race here. But it is all about the $. It's not about giving the athletes that have paid for entry the best experience, it is about negotiating the best commercial deal for a supplier/sponsor.
The athlete guide is out for Valencia 70.3. No mention of Gatorade anywhere (and checking other previous events, it’s both mentioned and has adverts in the guide)
On the page / info for the stops - it only mentions ‘ISO Drink’ in 750ml bottles.
What Gatorade alternatives exist in other parts of the world? What will they use in Spain? Mortal barely has a domestic presence let alone a worldwide presence so I doubt they will be the electrolyte drink sponsor outside the US. Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
100% agree. It’s going to be a hypoglycemia-fest.
I envision bike aid stations coming to a crawl (and potentially crashes) from folks mixing their own powders on course.
Concentrate the powder in fluid... ideally in large capacity fluid reservoir. Ideally don't spend time mixing on course.
Next week's headline: IM sees the future. No more aid stations.
IM administration says that they intend to see their way out of aid stations entirely, forcing reliance on what you can carry, in a move to stay relevant with the current gravel scene. Opponents say the move is said to further solidify triathlon's lack of accessibility from the top down, but IM says it's about a spirit of alignment with athlete interests and market demand.
Headline in 2 weeks: IM Announces 6-year Partnership with Major Bike Brands
IM partners with several major bike brands building in-frame 4-liter reservoirs with positive pressure technology, starting at $19,999 for last year's midrange groupset, and some old-model zipp 404. An anonymous IM exec team member claims non-dentists & non-C-suite 'white collar working class were never really our target market.' It's not clear if that internal ethos informed the partnership with a hydration company that doesn't provide the carbs athletes need on-course. IM has yet to respond to repeated inquiries on the matter.
For the newbies to the forum: pink text = sarcasm / satire, in case that wasn't clear. I had to ask a few years ago so I figured I'd just make that abundantly clear. Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
The athlete guide is out for Valencia 70.3. No mention of Gatorade anywhere (and checking other previous events, it’s both mentioned and has adverts in the guide)
On the page / info for the stops - it only mentions ‘ISO Drink’ in 750ml bottles.
What Gatorade alternatives exist in other parts of the world? What will they use in Spain? Mortal barely has a domestic presence let alone a worldwide presence so I doubt they will be the electrolyte drink sponsor outside the US.
I wonder/hope that Mortal may do a branded "endurance formula" that is more targeted to IM athletes? Maybe?
Didn't IM partner with Powerbar for drink, or something like that 10 years ago? Memory fades.
Anyways - I thought maybe Mortal is small enough to do this and if co branded or something could be a windfall. But also - some decisions made aren't the smartest so maybe I'm overly optimistic! DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
Concentrate the powder in fluid... ideally in large capacity fluid reservoir.
This. It's not too difficult to have 1 concentrated bottle for the first half of a IM bike and a second concentrated bottle for the 2nd half of the ride. And then use aid stations for water/hydration needs.
Other option is to use special needs with bottles already mixed. You may lose 30-45 seconds by stopping for special needs. blog
I needed this laugh immensely, it’s a nice break from stressing out about this now to get ahead of the wave with my athletes. Level II USAT Coach | Level 3 USAC Coach | NASM-CPT Team Zoot | Tailwind Trailblazer I can tell you why you're sick, I just can't write you an Rx
I've been anxiously awaiting your input on this one.
What is your take on the use of stevia in the drink?
To someone else's point - I too also hope that they are coming out with an 'endurance formula' of sorts. Otherwise, I am practicing with a hyper concentrated bottle to get me through Texas. IG: NCGregory8778
I’m sitting here smiling at the recollection of the Polish Ironman licensee using a ZERO calorie drink for on course hydration in Ironman Gdynia because that’s what the sponsor wanted to promote that year.
I'm reminded of the time that I did Barrelman and the aid stations were using a beverage that contained Stevia and Xylitol but no sucrose. Also reminded of Ironman dropping Subaru for VinFast.
Working on it for publication to Slowtwitch.com's front page ASAP Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
It's awesome that you're going to get it into your app (not yet a user, but I'm a big fan of your posts here and I've started watching some of your YouTubes). I think the complaint/issue people have with this move is that most people fall into 2 basic categories: 1. They don't use the on course beverage at all. For example, I've often used shot blocks or chomps for calories and something like Nuun in water for my hydration and electrolytes. Others use their own concentrated bottle. 2. They primarily/entirely use the on course beverage (or for 140.6 use it after their own blend runs out). And the problem is for people in category 2. They are going to grab a bottle at an aid station, and it'll taste sweet. They will think they are consuming calories. And after a few hours they will be running on empty. It's generally a given that the drink has a "normal" amount of sugar in it, and this is far below. The problem isn't going to affect anyone reading or commenting on this thread, it's those that aren't. They may not realize it's not providing any calories until it is too late. That said, I'm only looking to do 70.3 and less over the next 5+ years, and I'm planning to try out your sugar water and sodium citrate recipes! :) Thanks for posting, I learn a ton every time!
I completely understand the frustration over this decision and the concern for the majority of people into category 2. I also agree that generally speaking people fall into those two categories. So everything that follows is very specific to myself and likely not a common category. I simply am providing a data point.
I train 95% of the time with Dr. Harrison's sugar and sodium citrate recipe. I use the Saturday app to guide all of my fueling decisions for training and racing up to 70.3 distances bc I can carry all of my own nutrition in a hyper concentrated mix in my front hydration system and then water in bottles to chase and hydrate with. I use it 1: because it works and 2: because it is cheap. However, for long long training rides or races longer than 70.3 having to restock can be a pain. (yes, I know I can use special needs on 140.6 to restock)
That being said, for my upcoming IMTX, I am actually very excited about the move to Mortal bc my plan for that race is to fuel with gels (SIS Beta Fuel, 40 carbs per gel, 1:.08 ratio G:F to get close to the table sugar ratio on the ride and Maurten on run) and use my hydration system for water only to make sure I am getting enough water in through the heat and humidity of Houston. I will have sodium citrate in water on the bike and in special needs, but am thrilled that there will be a higher sodium product on course, especially during the run.
In other words, I use my own nutrition for calories on bike and Maurten gels for run, but having a backup electrolyte source without a high caloric count is actually a plus for me as I can be more precise with getting the carbs per hour I want in the ratio of G:F that I want and then use Mortal to supplement sodium as needed.
Again - I understand my specific fueling strategy is not common and my excitement for this move doesn't change the fact that it is annoying at best and detrimental to someone's race at worst. But wanted to at least give one positive perspective on this.
We may not want to believe it, but very few IM competitors come to this page.
Even fewer actually read the Athlete Guide.
How many are going to reach their first Aid Station and wonder what the new stuff is and where's the Gatorade Endurance?! I suspect you're correct about it being an epic meltdown/blow up event.
I also heard Little Debbie was coming back to IM CHOO this year as the title sponsor and nutrition sponsor. Aid stations will feature a variety of Little Debbie snacks, including Swiss Rolls, Cosmic Brownies, Oatmeal Crème Pies, and Fudge Rounds.
Another one:
This story is missing half of the picture. IM will be offering Mortal Hydration mix alongside Ketone IQ shots. The combination will propel athletes to new heights while remaining in ketosis. Some athletes are already starting to train this way by using intermittent interval fasting (alternating between fasted and fueled intervals).
Concentrated bottle of Dr. Harrison’s Potent Potion helped me to my best 70.3. So darn simple…sugar and sodium citrate. Aaron Bales Lansing Triathlon Team
I also heard Little Debbie was coming back to IM CHOO this year as the title sponsor and nutrition sponsor. Aid stations will feature a variety of Little Debbie snacks, including Swiss Rolls, Cosmic Brownies, Oatmeal Crème Pies, and Fudge
"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy "Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
Concentrated bottle of Dr. Harrison’s Potent Potion helped me to my best 70.3. So darn simple…sugar and sodium citrate.
What are you doing about the run? On the bike, you can have a concentrated solution and then mix with water but that's harder on the run.
Normally I run with a hand flask, and I refill at aid stations - this is usually just a better way to make sure I get all the calories into me over time (rather than big glugs at aid stations), but even this approach might not be enough if there aren't many calories at aid stations.
Maurtens, water, ice…maybe Clif Bloks? Coke eventually. I probably was drinking whatever drink product they had.
Never done a full. My 70.3 nutrition strategy is probably a combination of being optimistic about calories consumed on the bike still working and being silly about how many I actually need. Aaron Bales Lansing Triathlon Team
Word on the street that while they are looking for a Gatorade replacement. This is NOT it ( at this time) and it will not be on course for Oceanside or Texas. We will all the the pleasure of drinking non branded gatorade. E-DUB Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.
The athlete guide is out for Valencia 70.3. No mention of Gatorade anywhere (and checking other previous events, it’s both mentioned and has adverts in the guide)
On the page / info for the stops - it only mentions ‘ISO Drink’ in 750ml bottles.
What Gatorade alternatives exist in other parts of the world? What will they use in Spain? Mortal barely has a domestic presence let alone a worldwide presence so I doubt they will be the electrolyte drink sponsor outside the US.
Enervit was in use at 2019 worlds in Nice. Bike course we're giving out refillable IM Nice branded bottles with the mix in them. I regret not keeping 1 IG - @ryanppax http://www.geluminati.com Use code ST5 for $5 off your order
Word on the street that while they are looking for a Gatorade replacement. This is NOT it ( at this time) and it will not be on course for Oceanside or Texas. We will all the the pleasure of drinking non branded gatorade.
Lots of local races w/o a nutrition sponsor just go to Costco. ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley: Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
I also heard Little Debbie was coming back to IM CHOO this year as the title sponsor and nutrition sponsor. Aid stations will feature a variety of Little Debbie snacks, including Swiss Rolls, Cosmic Brownies, Oatmeal Crème Pies, and Fudge Rounds.
Hey, I’d be down for that. I love oatmeal creme pies on the bike. They don’t get gross in heat, easy to open wrapper, easy to chew, 26g cho and yummy. My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist
Word on the street that while they are looking for a Gatorade replacement. This is NOT it ( at this time) and it will not be on course for Oceanside or Texas. We will all the the pleasure of drinking non branded gatorade.
So was the contract with Gatorade up or did something else happen? Let food be thy medicine...
High number of Slowtwitchers qualifying for the WC because they were prepared for the change when non-ST folks are surprised and negatively impacted. Go ST!
Word on the street that while they are looking for a Gatorade replacement. This is NOT it ( at this time) and it will not be on course for Oceanside or Texas. We will all the the pleasure of drinking non branded gatorade.
It's not complicated tho. Water, sugar, salt. Things surely in the top 10, maybe top 5 of foodstuffs availability.
Making a plastic bottle, a cardboard crate, warehousing, marketing, supply chain. All of these things are orders of magnitude more complicated than the actual liquid.
Of the $3 you pay for the sport drink: Water -the residential cost is ~$1.50/1000 gallons. <$0.01 per 500ml drink Sugar ~$1 per kilo for a consumer. Or $0.05 consumer cost per drink. Salt ~$2 per kilo, or $0.10 per drink, consumer cost
So me in my house can make one for $0.15. There's dye and stuff too, but it's not unreasonable to say when you buy Gatorade the actual Gatorade is free, you're just paying for the bottle to be near you when you want it.
The athlete guide is out for Valencia 70.3. No mention of Gatorade anywhere (and checking other previous events, it’s both mentioned and has adverts in the guide)
On the page / info for the stops - it only mentions ‘ISO Drink’ in 750ml bottles.
What Gatorade alternatives exist in other parts of the world? What will they use in Spain? Mortal barely has a domestic presence let alone a worldwide presence so I doubt they will be the electrolyte drink sponsor outside the US.
Enervit was in use at 2019 worlds in Nice. Bike course we're giving out refillable IM Nice branded bottles with the mix in them. I regret not keeping 1
When I ran the Berlin marathon I did some research before hand. I was surprised to find out Gatorade is not sold in Germany bc of a ban on some food colorings Germany has and Gatorade didn’t want to reformulate. Hilariously I found It lead to some Germans fueling with beer to get the carbs
Concentrated bottle of Dr. Harrison’s Potent Potion helped me to my best 70.3. So darn simple…sugar and sodium citrate.
What are you doing about the run? On the bike, you can have a concentrated solution and then mix with water but that's harder on the run.
Coke! Tons of carbs/cals in that stuff
Is the on-course Coke flat? Otherwise that would just destroy my stomach. I'll be sticking to salt/water every aid station plus gels for my carbs.
IME, "flatish" Probably about 1/2 the CO2 level of a fresh can, but far from fully flat. ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley: Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
Word on the street that while they are looking for a Gatorade replacement. This is NOT it ( at this time) and it will not be on course for Oceanside or Texas. We will all the the pleasure of drinking non branded gatorade.
Interesting. I ordered a Gatorade endurance mix just last week so I have it for Oceanside.
Now I'm anxious to find out what they will have on the course so I can plan accordingly.
FWIW, I ordered from The Feed yesterday (Maurten mix) and as I completed the checked out process, I got an offer to add Mortal Hydration drink mix sampler with one click for $1.00 Mortal Hydration × 1 Mortal Sampler / 3 Regular & 3 Salted
FWIW, I ordered from The Feed yesterday (Maurten mix) and as I completed the checked out process, I got an offer to add Mortal Hydration drink mix sampler with one click for $1.00 Mortal Hydration × 1 Mortal Sampler / 3 Regular & 3 Salted
$1.00
That looks more like an edible package than a hydration package.
I've been anxiously awaiting your input on this one.
What is your take on the use of stevia in the drink?
Your wish is my command. (it's an article I just wrote answering that question.) Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
OF FUCKING COURSE they swap to something with Stevia in it.
God dammit. What the fuck are we doing!??!?!?!?!
(Note: the above post is my personal opinion and does not reflect my position or the editorial view of Slowtwitch).
Represents my opinion as well. Stevia + barely any Carbs is bad news x2 on this one. Too old to go pro but doing it anyway http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Yesterday Ironman sent me a nice email titled "Nutrition: The Fourth Discipline". Lots of advice to practice your nutrition in training so you are ready for race day. Only product mentioned is Maurten Gels! The last line of the email "Plan now to start testing your race-day nutrition in your daily training with exactly what’s going to be served on-course at your next race."
Ok - so what is going to be on the course at IMTX? Just trying to follow your advice IM.
FWIW, I ordered from The Feed yesterday (Maurten mix) and as I completed the checked out process, I got an offer to add Mortal Hydration drink mix sampler with one click for $1.00 Mortal Hydration × 1 Mortal Sampler / 3 Regular & 3 Salted
$1.00
That looks more like an edible package than a hydration package.
Look like the cover of one of those "... For Dummies" books "What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy "Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
Shake and open repeatedly (slowly at first, obviously). Then leave open for the night. How race organizers flatten all that coke they're going to dispense, I have no idea. "FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
I had to check the date because I thought this was an April fools joke.
New CEO is off to a great start.
Not that it matters to much to the athletes, but it was Gatorade strong arming IM, not the other way around.
Was/is Gatorade Endurance a separate entity than Gatorade? I remember meeting the “owner†of GE at IMLP in 2019 and he said they were separate. Unless im misremembering the conversation. Seemed to be a smaller operation.
I’m just gonna leave this video here and also let everyone know that the “on course Bottles†Gatorade Endurance is a completely different formula and ingredients than the powder formula that they sell that everyone trains with. Lionel learned this in one of his races ;) lionel was a sponsored athlete at the time but I don’t know if you remember he went on a nutrition kick after this race haha.
FWIW, I ordered from The Feed yesterday (Maurten mix) and as I completed the checked out process, I got an offer to add Mortal Hydration drink mix sampler with one click for $1.00 Mortal Hydration × 1 Mortal Sampler / 3 Regular & 3 Salted
$1.00
HAH! These were $5 at Rock n Roll DC IG - @ryanppax http://www.geluminati.com Use code ST5 for $5 off your order
but it was Gatorade strong arming IM, not the other way around.
Yup. Gatorade has $7B ARR. GSSI is a marketing department to academia. They do what they want. Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
FWIW, I ordered from The Feed yesterday (Maurten mix) and as I completed the checked out process, I got an offer to add Mortal Hydration drink mix sampler with one click for $1.00 Mortal Hydration × 1 Mortal Sampler / 3 Regular & 3 Salted
$1.00
HAH! These were $5 at Rock n Roll DC
Did R&R offer to mix them up with firehose water, in trash cans?
Maybe Gatorade imploded (or no longer have the finances or desire to support Ironman). The Ironman warehouse is in Boulder. Mortal Kombucha / Hydration is also in Boulder. Seems plausible that an IM staffer knew someone at Mortal and worked a deal. Mortal Kombucha also has backing from a venture capital firm (based on "news" from their website"), so maybe they put more finances in front of Ironman to make the deal "sweeter" than Gatorade.
This makes a lot more sense given the less that desirable nutritional components of Mortal and the timing.
I had to check the date because I thought this was an April fools joke.
New CEO is off to a great start.
Not that it matters to much to the athletes, but it was Gatorade strong arming IM, not the other way around.
Was/is Gatorade Endurance a separate entity than Gatorade? I remember meeting the “owner†of GE at IMLP in 2019 and he said they were separate. Unless im misremembering the conversation. Seemed to be a smaller operation.
There are a lot of layers, but no all Gatorade branded products are the assets of Pepsi.
G2, Endurance, etc are separate “companies†from Gatorade that are freely allowed to use the Gatorade brand name.
I’m just gonna leave this video here and also let everyone know that the “on course Bottles†Gatorade Endurance is a completely different formula and ingredients than the powder formula that they sell that everyone trains with. Lionel learned this in one of his races ;) lionel was a sponsored athlete at the time but I don’t know if you remember he went on a nutrition kick after this race haha.
so you can actually buy the same bottles they sell on course from amazon here:
The bottle list the following as ingredients WATER, SUGAR, MALTODEXTRIN, FRUCTOSE, CITRIC ACID, SODIUM CITRATE, MONOPOTASSIUM PHOSPHATE, SALT, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, ASCORBIC ACID, MAGNESIUM OXIDE, BETA CAROTENE (COLOR)
you can also buy the powder that everyone trains with on amazon here:
The powder list the following as ingredients SUGAR, MALTODEXTRIN, FRUCTOSE, CITRIC ACID, SODIUM CITRATE, MONOPOTASSIUM PHOSPHATE, SALT, CALCIUM LACTATE, CALCIUM SILICATE, NATURAL FLAVOR, MAGNESIUM OXIDE, GUM ARABIC, SODIUM ASCORBATE (PRESERVES FRESHNESS), BETA CAROTENE (COLOR)
I’m just gonna leave this video here and also let everyone know that the “on course Bottles†Gatorade Endurance is a completely different formula and ingredients than the powder formula that they sell that everyone trains with. Lionel learned this in one of his races ;) lionel was a sponsored athlete at the time but I don’t know if you remember he went on a nutrition kick after this race haha.
so you can actually buy the same bottles they sell on course from amazon here:
The bottle list the following as ingredients WATER, SUGAR, MALTODEXTRIN, FRUCTOSE, CITRIC ACID, SODIUM CITRATE, MONOPOTASSIUM PHOSPHATE, SALT, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, ASCORBIC ACID, MAGNESIUM OXIDE, BETA CAROTENE (COLOR)
you can also buy the powder that everyone trains with on amazon here:
The powder list the following as ingredients SUGAR, MALTODEXTRIN, FRUCTOSE, CITRIC ACID, SODIUM CITRATE, MONOPOTASSIUM PHOSPHATE, SALT, CALCIUM LACTATE, CALCIUM SILICATE, NATURAL FLAVOR, MAGNESIUM OXIDE, GUM ARABIC, SODIUM ASCORBATE (PRESERVES FRESHNESS), BETA CAROTENE (COLOR)
Sounds you like you are very familiar with the make-up of this partnership. So I am assuming that you are aware that the VAST majority of the partnership (value and fee) was in Gatorade provideding free product to IM and all of its races.
Not sure someone can 'strong arm' when they are giving away the amount of product that Gatorade does.
Sounds you like you are very familiar with the make-up of this partnership. So I am assuming that you are aware that the VAST majority of the partnership (value and fee) was in Gatorade provideding free product to IM and all of its races.
Not sure someone can 'strong arm' when they are giving away the amount of product that Gatorade does.
I don’t know what you are asking. I am aware of how the arrangement worked prior to this and I believe it was Gatorade who wanted to change the terms.
The Galveston 70.3 Athlete Guide now lists Gatorade for on-course nutrition. Previously it was "Electrolyte Drink".
note past athlete guides stated "Gatorade Endurance Formula".
The IMTX70.3 athlete guide currently reads "Gatorade Drink" which is an update from the "electrolyte drink" you mention but not quite the same as past races!
I wouldn't read in to the actual words used too closely, for all we know some volunteer or intern updated the Athlete Guide and wasn't really aware of what is was called in past races. The only thing I take from that is someone updated it with a specific brand.
Concentrate the powder in fluid... ideally in large capacity fluid reservoir.
This. It's not too difficult to have 1 concentrated bottle for the first half of a IM bike and a second concentrated bottle for the 2nd half of the ride. And then use aid stations for water/hydration needs.
Other option is to use special needs with bottles already mixed. You may lose 30-45 seconds by stopping for special needs.
depending on the competency (or lack thereof) of the volunteers, this is realistically 2-4 mins or more. Def not less than 1:30. For someone fighting for a slot...
Concentrate the powder in fluid... ideally in large capacity fluid reservoir.
This. It's not too difficult to have 1 concentrated bottle for the first half of a IM bike and a second concentrated bottle for the 2nd half of the ride. And then use aid stations for water/hydration needs.
Other option is to use special needs with bottles already mixed. You may lose 30-45 seconds by stopping for special needs.
depending on the competency (or lack thereof) of the volunteers, this is realistically 2-4 mins or more. Def not less than 1:30. For someone fighting for a slot...
So I used to do this.... the main issue is that it's still pretty imprecise for dosing (I would concentrate 3-4 bottles into one bottle, then mark the concentrated bottle with a line indicating "this is 1 bike bottle's worth of mix), and then try and mix a regular strength bottle at aid stations with water + my concentrated bottle. Way to easy to under or over mix, and if you're stomach is touchy, this isn't great.
I switched to doing ONLY regular strength bottles. 3 mixed on my bike to start, 3 bottles in special needs, and 1-2 ziplock bags with 24-oz bottle powder doses. It's easy to manage and honestly, the extra weight is negligible versus suffering from a badly mixed bottle.
Caveat is that I'm not worried about losing 30 seconds at special needs, knowing that I'd likely lose more with an angry stomach or being under salted due to mixing on the fly.
Concentrate the powder in fluid... ideally in large capacity fluid reservoir.
This. It's not too difficult to have 1 concentrated bottle for the first half of a IM bike and a second concentrated bottle for the 2nd half of the ride. And then use aid stations for water/hydration needs.
Other option is to use special needs with bottles already mixed. You may lose 30-45 seconds by stopping for special needs.
depending on the competency (or lack thereof) of the volunteers, this is realistically 2-4 mins or more. Def not less than 1:30. For someone fighting for a slot...
So I used to do this.... the main issue is that it's still pretty imprecise for dosing (I would concentrate 3-4 bottles into one bottle, then mark the concentrated bottle with a line indicating "this is 1 bike bottle's worth of mix), and then try and mix a regular strength bottle at aid stations with water + my concentrated bottle. Way to easy to under or over mix, and if you're stomach is touchy, this isn't great.
I switched to doing ONLY regular strength bottles. 3 mixed on my bike to start, 3 bottles in special needs, and 1-2 ziplock bags with 24-oz bottle powder doses. It's easy to manage and honestly, the extra weight is negligible versus suffering from a badly mixed bottle.
Caveat is that I'm not worried about losing 30 seconds at special needs, knowing that I'd likely lose more with an angry stomach or being under salted due to mixing on the fly.
I used to do this when I used infinit as a newbie, 10 years+ ago. I would have a concentrated 3 hr bottle on the bike and a frozen 3hr bottle in Special needs. one reason I learned to "live off the fat of the land," was to avoid special needs. I am usually hunting the WC slot and finishing right behind the ones who get it. though I did get it 1x. I probably only have a full or two in me left, so I'll figure it out next year since I am only doing 70.3s this year.
I just go with a "calorie bottle" filled with gels (enough to get through the bike). Separating the nutrition and hydration is helpful as weather conditions can skew the amount of each I need.
Key to this is always having a pre-planned PlanB. If I lose the bottle for some reason, I have a backup in special needs (if the race has one) and also know exactly what I would grab at an aid station as a replacement (typically a calculated amount of chews to stuff into the legs of my trisuit...no pockets). ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley: Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
Concentrate the powder in fluid... ideally in large capacity fluid reservoir.
This. It's not too difficult to have 1 concentrated bottle for the first half of a IM bike and a second concentrated bottle for the 2nd half of the ride. And then use aid stations for water/hydration needs.
Other option is to use special needs with bottles already mixed. You may lose 30-45 seconds by stopping for special needs.
depending on the competency (or lack thereof) of the volunteers, this is realistically 2-4 mins or more. Def not less than 1:30. For someone fighting for a slot...
Not in my experience. In the handful of times I have used special needs, a volunteer has always been calling out race numbers over the radio 100-200 yards before the special needs bags. By the time I get to the bags, a volunteer has always been standing there with my bag. Grab 1-2 bottles from bag, put them in cages, go. The exchange should take less than 10 seconds.
Yes it does happen that your number gets missed or a volunteer can't find your bag but that seems to be the exception not the norm especially for those towards the front who are going for slots. It's not nearly as chaotic or crowded compared to those who are coming by 60-90 min later. blog
At Choo last year I did the swap in ~10-15 sec. Add in deceleration into and acceleration out of SN and it wasn’t bad. I was 15 places outside of a WC slot and that 30-40 sec wasn’t what kept me out 🤣😄 --------------------------------------------------------
That’s what I do as well. It’s never taken more than 15 seconds to stop and swap bottles at special needs. Keep in mind that you’ll never get that bottle back. Where do they end up? I have no clue.
That’s what I do as well. It’s never taken more than 15 seconds to stop and swap bottles at special needs. Keep in mind that you’ll never get that bottle back. Where do they end up? I have no clue.
At Choo last year I did the swap in ~10-15 sec. Add in deceleration into and acceleration out of SN and it wasn’t bad. I was 15 places outside of a WC slot and that 30-40 sec wasn’t what kept me out 🤣😄
I'll point out that with this strategy, there may also be an aero penalty associated with carrying an extra few bottles around. I typically run one BTA and another BTS. I'd need close to 6-7 bottles for the whole race, so that would mean taking on two more physical bottles, with at least one of those on the frame.
Most of us could probably run 2x BTS and not suffer that great an aero penalty, but that's still 5 bottles total before you have to put something on the frame. Most of us would need 6 or 7 even at the pointy end.
It has a small amount of stevia. I got the packet deal they had a few weeks ago to try it out since Stevia is hit or miss for me also. Couldn’t taste it and no stomach issues at all, not even sure why they added any honestly.
FWIW: used some Mortal packets in my water bottles on several hard Zwift rides to gauge compatibility with my stomach/GI tract (no issues), taste (its fine- except strangely for the Barry regular, Berry salty I liked), and it was pretty on point from a cramping prevention front. Just add some gels/blocks for carbs and have at it. Found it a lot better to drink at race pace than any Gatorade product. Is it my favorite, no. Would I turn it down or be worried about using it for an important race, also no.
From what I read Gatorade was not available on the bike course at Oceanside and Galveston. Only Mortal. Both Gatorade and Mortal on the run course.
Apparently volunteers had to mix all the individual servings of Mortal. I’m sure that was fun. Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
From what I read Gatorade was not available on the bike course at Oceanside and Galveston. Only Mortal. Both Gatorade and Mortal on the run course. Apparently volunteers had to mix all the individual servings of Mortal. I’m sure that was fun.
I only went for water on the bike course, wish I would have paid more attention to the other options. I didn't even notice that bottles the Mortal was mixed in. And yes both Gatorade and Mortal was on the run course. Mortal also had quite a few banners lining the run course.
From what I read Gatorade was not available on the bike course at Oceanside and Galveston. Only Mortal. Both Gatorade and Mortal on the run course.
Apparently volunteers had to mix all the individual servings of Mortal. I’m sure that was fun.
that's not correct for Texas 70.3 - they had orange gatorade on the bike course. it was the powder mixed in water bottles though. the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning
Any word which Mortal will be on course? They seem to have a Normal version and a Salty one. I'd prefer the Salty but I'm not optimistic they'll have options like that. Too old to go pro but doing it anyway http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Van Horn advises that if athletes plan to rely on Mortal Hydration for their electrolyte needs on course that athletes consider carrying more of their own fueling drink mix and/or more solid food."
“I would not recommend increasing servings of Mortal to reach your calorie or carbohydrate needs,†Van Horn warned. “For athletes that have issues with fructose or higher-calorie drink mixes, Mortal Hydration could be a good option, but it could be challenging for athletes that have the potential for over-salting their nutrition plan.â€
Nothing like saying to racers that if you want any carbs you should probably think about bringing your own. It's not hard to manage for the bike, but for the run suddenly we all need to get creative.
I think my plan for the run will be to take a concentrate hand flask and then flush with water at aid stations, but for the IM distance I might go full running vest.
I think my plan for the run will be to take a concentrate hand flask and then flush with water at aid stations, but for the IM distance I might go full running vest.
Who's Steve McKenna?
That's what I already do (concentrated flask and running bottle sleeve). What really disappoints me though is instead of drinking from my hand flask and banking the "free" maurten gels in my pocket to save for later I might actually have to start using the gels on course when my flask runs out!
It's also somewhere in the batshit insane file that volunteers have to make these bottles by hand for the bike aid stations. ---------------------------------- Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
I think my plan for the run will be to take a concentrate hand flask and then flush with water at aid stations, but for the IM distance I might go full running vest.
Who's Steve McKenna?
A pro from down under. I think he's the dude who does the robot to cut the tape.
I can see why Mortal Hydration wants to be able to advertise their drink like some kind of endurance formula and hype up how well they perform to non-athletes just wanting to sip something "healthy" (ahem, er ya....) as they go about their day at work. Why else would you add stevia to jazz up the sweetness (and nasty aftertaste) without the extra calories.
But clearly the typical Ironman athlete is someone who is thinking a lot about how many calories they need to add, not subtract.
So the people they are advertising using their product are actually annoyed and upset at having to use the product. They are creating negative goodwill. Meanwhile, the desk jockeys who don't know any better, but just want to kick their habit of drinking soda and think this is a healthier alternative will get to see images of athletes using this stuff and assume that's how you get to be so fit to run an Ironman, by drinking a low cal drink....
It's like the reverse of the original thought behind gatorade -- use for fueling sport, suddenly becomes the drink people take when they are sitting around not doing sport. And now we have a drink made for sitting around not doing sport....used to fuel sport?
It's also somewhere in the batshit insane file that volunteers have to make these bottles by hand for the bike aid stations.
I assume they fill them in Europe already, so maybe they figured it's not such a big deal to do so here. At least in Lahti they were handing out reusable water bottles on the bike course.
There is something to be said for the environmental impact being reduced that just happens to line up with the bottom line savings -- win win! Trucking around all that water/gatorade just do dump most of it on the ground/trash does seem pretty inefficient. Now we can drink it out of the volunteer captains garden hose :) hah
I think my plan for the run will be to take a concentrate hand flask and then flush with water at aid stations, but for the IM distance I might go full running vest.
Who's Steve McKenna?
A pro from down under. I think he's the dude who does the robot to cut the tape.
Not to mention the user experience for newcomers to the 70.3 or IM distance. I think most of us here will be fine, if annoyed, but imagine you're nervously taking your first step up to a new distance and trying out a 70.3 or IM. You're probably used to drinking "sport drink" as part of your training and taken that as your nutrition at shorter distances. Now you try this, not thinking anything of it besides "this is the sports drink they give out at races" and you're guaranteed to have a bad day. Some will rebound, and try again, but others (or others on their 2nd try) will come to the conclusion that the distance isn't for them. Sure, there's a million things that can go wrong with your race, but you're guaranteeing that someone will because of this product.
Not to mention the user experience for newcomers to the 70.3 or IM distance. I think most of us here will be fine, if annoyed, but imagine you're nervously taking your first step up to a new distance and trying out a 70.3 or IM. You're probably used to drinking "sport drink" as part of your training and taken that as your nutrition at shorter distances. Now you try this, not thinking anything of it besides "this is the sports drink they give out at races" and you're guaranteed to have a bad day. Some will rebound, and try again, but others (or others on their 2nd try) will come to the conclusion that the distance isn't for them. Sure, there's a million things that can go wrong with your race, but you're guaranteeing that someone will because of this product.
This can't be good for IM's outreach strategy
At Galveston 70.3 I watched someone completely empty the contents of their stomach into some bushes. It was the exact same color as the Mortal they were serving on course.
Stevia makes me pee like crazy, I’d literally have to stop every 15min if I drank this. My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist
I think this is a huge misstep for Ironman. I get that Gatorade Endurance is no longer being made but why not just use Gatorade? My personal opinion is that it’s easier to carry some extra electrolytes than to carry extra cals and carbs. Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Damn, main takeaway from this thread is that you are a bunch of fucking cry babies!
Wonder how folks back in the day survived their ironman races without the exact proper proportions and types of sweetners/electrolytes being served to them on course...
Not to mention the user experience for newcomers to the 70.3 or IM distance. I think most of us here will be fine, if annoyed, but imagine you're nervously taking your first step up to a new distance and trying out a 70.3 or IM. You're probably used to drinking "sport drink" as part of your training and taken that as your nutrition at shorter distances. Now you try this, not thinking anything of it besides "this is the sports drink they give out at races" and you're guaranteed to have a bad day. Some will rebound, and try again, but others (or others on their 2nd try) will come to the conclusion that the distance isn't for them. Sure, there's a million things that can go wrong with your race, but you're guaranteeing that someone will because of this product.
This can't be good for IM's outreach strategy
At Galveston 70.3 I watched someone completely empty the contents of their stomach into some bushes. It was the exact same color as the Mortal they were serving on course.
Ok so seriously what’s the plan (as athletes) now that Mortal is the drink. I hate Stevia and see no place for it in my training and racing nutrition. I need energy, I consume sugar. Are lots of people going to now bring tons of bottles of their own sh*t? I have done Gatorade endurance bottles from the aid stations for years on the bike and loved keeping my bike light, not loaded up like an RV during a race, just grab bottles when I needed them. All of a sudden it now seems like if I want to avoid artificial sweetener I now need to bring my own drinks?! This is so disappointing.
OK so seriously, how about you just adapt. You got used to using gatorade over the years, now get used to doing something different. Maybe your first two bottles have gatorade, and after that you grab only water, and use gels for your sugar? How is this such a big deal?
OK so seriously, how about you just adapt. You got used to using gatorade over the years, now get used to doing something different. Maybe your first two bottles have gatorade, and after that you grab only water, and use gels for your sugar? How is this such a big deal?
The Gatorade & gels will have different types of sugar, presumably................wont that be a surefire way to get GI distress? Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Damn, main takeaway from this thread is that you are a bunch of fucking cry babies!
Wonder how folks back in the day survived their ironman races without the exact proper proportions and types of sweetners/electrolytes being served to them on course...
Surely you can comprehend that racing a half or full Ironman is not the time to be using a diet drink.
This isn't a question of whining about Maurten vs Gu or something. It's literally a low calorie diet drink being served as "nutrition".
On the run you have a little more time and opportunity to grab gels. On the bike, if you lose your concentration mix or if you depend on the oncourse mix to top off what you carry on the bike you're not really getting any caloric benefit from this drink.
It would be a very smart move for this company to create an additional "pro sports" formula or something that doesn't rely on zero calorie sweetener.
Instead of having hordes of Ironman fans mocking it and complaining, they'd have Ironman fans buying their product. Hopefully, they figure out that for an Ironman athlete the goal is stomaching more carbs not less.
I wouldn't want to be from this company reading all the people I'm paying for the privilege of giving my product to destroying the utility of my product.
Ok so seriously what’s the plan (as athletes) now that Mortal is the drink.
Personally, I'm going to do my normal bottle setup on the bike, only take water after they are gone, and do a bottle swap in special needs. Will make up the calories w/ more solids/gels. I'm actually looking forward to fewer bottle hand-ups and not having to use those horrible Gatorade bottles anymore. On the run I may run with a bottle and also swap during special needs, though I think I'd be fine w/ water, coke, and gels.
The drink is lame as hell, pretty easy to predict that this will be short lived, but it shouldn't be the end of the world to not have it. The problem is that none of the quality sports drinks are likely to pay Ironman for the privilege of supplying their product to everyone globally, that's an incredible expense. There's just not a ton of money in sports nutrition to begin with. The companies that are able to do it are huge companies with deep pockets like Gatorade (coke/powerade could do it if they wanted, but they don't I'm sure) or some VC backed startup with money to burn like Mortal (or LMNT), but none of the latter are going to match what Ironman athletes want/need. Dimond Bikes Superfan
Damn, main takeaway from this thread is that you are a bunch of fucking cry babies!
Wonder how folks back in the day survived their ironman races without the exact proper proportions and types of sweetners/electrolytes being served to them on course...
Two things. 1) it seems reasonable to complain that Ironman is making a huge mistake by basically removing an energy source you can get during the race. On course “nutrition†is now realistically limited to solids/gels as the only option 2) While this can be somewhat resolved by personal nutrition strategies and using special needs, what happens if you lose bottles on course of your nutrition? What happens if there is a mix up at special needs? What happens to the thousands of participants that aren’t on slowtwitch that don’t understand what’s in mortal and how it differs from an actual sports drink? These are the larger concerns. My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist
I sorta agree with you to an extent. I think people should be more self reliant: use a concentrated mix and top off with water from aid stations or pickup bottles at special needs.
My only complaint is it’s going to be more difficult/complex to substitute nutrition needs if I drop one of my own bottles. It was pretty damn easy with Gatorade to get the Cho I needed if I dropped a bottle. With this new drink, it’s going to require multiple products to get my necessary Cho.
I haven’t looked at all the nutrition labels so I’m assuming it’s doable. It’s just more complex. blog
Losing your nutrition on course - well that gets back to being self sufficient and being responsible for what you need.
I'd argue that the on course nutrition is a 'perk' and you should have a backup plan. Have spare bottles in special needs. Have a few salt tabs on your bike in case you drop your own electrolyte drink and need to switch to feed station plain water. Or plan to use the new on course drinks and again, have a few salt tabs to swallow and an extra gel.
I was kind of sort of joking with the cry baby comment, but seriously.....
I carry a few extra (1-2) gels typically and my plan B has always been to use special needs with another bottle ready to go or Gatorade from aid stations. Obviously, if I drop my bottle super early in the bike or after special needs (which I’ve done before after riding over some rumble strips), I’m going to have to use on course nutrition.
All I’m saying is that my plan B is now a little more complex. Let’s hope I never have to use it again but I still have to plan for it. blog
OK so seriously, how about you just adapt. You got used to using gatorade over the years, now get used to doing something different. Maybe your first two bottles have gatorade, and after that you grab only water, and use gels for your sugar? How is this such a big deal?
That's all well and good. I'll take my own nutrition on self supported rides. But Ironman is a $1,000 per entry event, and now they're saying it's nutritionally self-supported? Kindly get f*%ked. A large part of what people pay for is the availability of what they need when and where they need it. I can go out and do my own Ironman at any pool/lake/road.
What's next? "Please upload this .gpx file to your computer prior to the race as the course will be unmarked". "As this is a looped bike course there will be no aid stations. Personal drop bags may be picked up outside of transition between loops 2 and 3".
OK so seriously, how about you just adapt. You got used to using gatorade over the years, now get used to doing something different. Maybe your first two bottles have gatorade, and after that you grab only water, and use gels for your sugar? How is this such a big deal?
Based on an analysis posted here at ST, this is not about adapting, this is about another of those dumb decisions by IM in detriment of the performance of the athletes. To quote the article: "For carbs: 9 * 22 oz per serving (derived from the adequate carbs scenario) gives a whopping - and totally impossible- 198oz per hour" (this is in the context of what to consume to get 90g of carbs on a 70.3 with a target of 6 hours).
Not that Gatorade Endurance was the greatest thing since sliced bread but at least much better in terms of carbs (not great on the gut for me and super sweet). This new decision of partnership will be a disaster for people trying to live off on course hydration (now i'm wondering if this is a move from IM to actually have to procure less for races, because presumably less people are going to race off their hydration, and overall cut total event costs, wouldn't be far fetched to think this came into the decision)
Terrible decision. Why not keep Gatorade on the course as well? They typically have Coke and IM doesnt have a deal with Coca-Cola, at least give everyone some options.
Terrible decision. Why not keep Gatorade on the course as well? They typically have Coke and IM doesnt have a deal with Coca-Cola, at least give everyone some options.
I'm sure the decision to bail on Gatorade was probably 100% a business decision. Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Terrible decision. Why not keep Gatorade on the course as well? They typically have Coke and IM doesnt have a deal with Coca-Cola, at least give everyone some options.
I'm sure the decision to bail on Gatorade was probably 100% a business decision.
Capture the market then cut your costs and increase your prices. Tale as old as time.
To be clear, it's a decision by Gatorade to get out of endurance sports.
Was Gatorade providing the drinks to IM at no cost or reduced cost or paying for the right to be the hydration sponsor? Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
My understanding is that the answer to that is "yes."
But, long story short -- Gatorade is killing the endurance formula, and is focusing all their marketing / events model on "traditional" sports marketing as opposed to anything in the run / triathlon world. That and new products, such as their Gatorade water. So they exited, stage right.
I am extremely leery, on a personal level, of Mortal as the replacement. But I also don't think IM would have changed had Gatorade still been an available alternative partner. ---------------------------------- Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
My understanding is that the answer to that is "yes."
But, long story short -- Gatorade is killing the endurance formula, and is focusing all their marketing / events model on "traditional" sports marketing as opposed to anything in the run / triathlon world. That and new products, such as their Gatorade water. So they exited, stage right.
I am extremely leery, on a personal level, of Mortal as the replacement. But I also don't think IM would have changed had Gatorade still been an available alternative partner.
In theory, Ironman could still supply Gatorade on course but they'd have to pay for it and it wouldn't be an event sponsor. We can't have that! :-) Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
My understanding is that the answer to that is "yes."
But, long story short -- Gatorade is killing the endurance formula, and is focusing all their marketing / events model on "traditional" sports marketing as opposed to anything in the run / triathlon world. That and new products, such as their Gatorade water. So they exited, stage right.
I am extremely leery, on a personal level, of Mortal as the replacement. But I also don't think IM would have changed had Gatorade still been an available alternative partner.
In theory, Ironman could still supply Gatorade on course but they'd have to pay for it and it wouldn't be an event sponsor. We can't have that! :-)
Just as an order of magnitude calculation: 1000 entries per IM/ 2000 per 70.3, 4 bottles/IM and 2 bottles/70.3 entrant ~=~4000 bottles per event. On Amazon these Gatorades are just under $2/bottle. I'm going to guess buying 4000 of them comes with a substantial discount. Let's just estimate it would cost $5000 per event.
An IM at $1000 per and 1000 or a 70.3 at $500 per and 2000 both round out to ~$1,000,000 entry fee per event. $5,000/$1,000,000 = 0.5% margin erosion.
That's also completely discounting the 100 other actually calorie-containing sports drinks brands that are either cheaper, willing to sponsor, or both.
But, long story short -- Gatorade is killing the endurance formula, and is focusing all their marketing / events model on "traditional" sports marketing as opposed to anything in the run / triathlon world. That and new products, such as their Gatorade water. So they exited, stage right.
Bingo. *triggers knee jerk to leap up on soapbox*
We're coming for you there, too, Gatorade. Settle into your role for now; the convenience store lifestyle beverage for serving at birthday parties and to the guy watching (but not playing) football and grilling cheesedogs with his buddies or eating chips watching the Final Four.
I so look forward to bringing the combo of software, hardware, and education to bear on Gatorade's enormous market cap in that arena, too.
*stepping off soapbox and takes off evil villain mask*
Y'all can enjoy this vid we just did on Gatorade Endurance, if you're curious what exactly you're about to be missing out on. Just posted it.
We'll do Mortal next. Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
Concentrated bottle of Dr. Harrison’s Potent Potion helped me to my best 70.3. So darn simple…sugar and sodium citrate.
No, no, no. It's Speed Nectar®.
Yes, it's legitimately registered, which makes me giggle.
Potent Potion® is Mortal Hydration's fix for their watered down current product. Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
Thanks for the feedback. I just read that it’s Gatorade thirst quencher for races through June. Come July it will be mortal.
Folks, please add salt or sodium citrate, or some other sodium supplement if you're 'living off the course' and surviving just off of Gatorade alone.
I'm a little surprised Gatorade's and IM legal teams are letting that happen. Gatorade alone in a 140.6 is a recipe for increased hyponatremia death counts.
Paging Tim Noakes. (he's a vicious anti-Gatorade zealot because of the spat of deaths they pretty much single-handedly spearheaded in the early 2000's. While I disagree with more than a couple of his other ideas, he's pretty spot-on with his anti-Gatorade zealotry.) Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
Folks, please add salt or sodium citrate, or some other sodium supplement if you're 'living off the course' and surviving just off of Gatorade alone.
Let's say I came into some GU Roctane electrolyte capsules at no charge to me.......would these be sufficient to supplement the Gatorade that I'm consuming during a 70.3 (Louisville)? Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Thanks for the feedback. I just read that it’s Gatorade thirst quencher for races through June. Come July it will be mortal.
Folks, please add salt or sodium citrate, or some other sodium supplement if you're 'living off the course' and surviving just off of Gatorade alone.
I'm a little surprised Gatorade's and IM legal teams are letting that happen. Gatorade alone in a 140.6 is a recipe for increased hyponatremia death counts.
Paging Tim Noakes. (he's a vicious anti-Gatorade zealot because of the spat of deaths they pretty much single-handedly spearheaded in the early 2000's. While I disagree with more than a couple of his other ideas, he's pretty spot-on with his anti-Gatorade zealotry.)
I was interested so I looked up his name. It seems he's arguing that adding sodium doesn't really do a lot to prevent hyponatremia.
He's wrong there. He's right that overdrinking absent sodium is the primary problem. Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
But, long story short -- Gatorade is killing the endurance formula, and is focusing all their marketing / events model on "traditional" sports marketing as opposed to anything in the run / triathlon world. That and new products, such as their Gatorade water. So they exited, stage right.
Bingo. *triggers knee jerk to leap up on soapbox*
We're coming for you there, too, Gatorade. Settle into your role for now; the convenience store lifestyle beverage for serving at birthday parties and to the guy watching (but not playing) football and grilling cheesedogs with his buddies or eating chips watching the Final Four.
I so look forward to bringing the combo of software, hardware, and education to bear on Gatorade's enormous market cap in that arena, too.
*stepping off soapbox and takes off evil villain mask*
Y'all can enjoy this vid we just did on Gatorade Endurance, if you're curious what exactly you're about to be missing out on. Just posted it.
We'll do Mortal next.
Pretty fair video. I think if you like the taste of the gatorade stuff it would be decent to add in some extra sugar and sodium citrate on your own to top it off and still get some of the flavors. The reason why I think perhaps it's a little unfair is how quickly you dismissed the addition of maltodextrin or potassium. I like using maltodextrin because it's not as sweet, but still adds carbs. From a performance side, I've assume it's helpful because it has such a high glycemic index. Is there a reason to dismiss it?
Similar question on potassium. Why dismiss it? Are you saying it's not helping as much as sodium so it's not necessary? Or not helping at all? This is the old wives tale side of me, but there's the whole potassium reduces headaches advice I've grown up with my whole life. It's pretty common for long endurance events for people to get a headache, so I'd assume that potassium could be beneficial here. At a minimum, does it hurt to add? If so, why not add it? Would you be opposed to adding potassium citrate in a home made mix?
I have a file. It’s building. Once it reaches critical mass. Maybe we could open it to our YouTube “membersâ€. I think we have two or three 😠Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
But, long story short -- Gatorade is killing the endurance formula, and is focusing all their marketing / events model on "traditional" sports marketing as opposed to anything in the run / triathlon world. That and new products, such as their Gatorade water. So they exited, stage right.
Bingo. *triggers knee jerk to leap up on soapbox*
We're coming for you there, too, Gatorade. Settle into your role for now; the convenience store lifestyle beverage for serving at birthday parties and to the guy watching (but not playing) football and grilling cheesedogs with his buddies or eating chips watching the Final Four.
I so look forward to bringing the combo of software, hardware, and education to bear on Gatorade's enormous market cap in that arena, too.
*stepping off soapbox and takes off evil villain mask*
Y'all can enjoy this vid we just did on Gatorade Endurance, if you're curious what exactly you're about to be missing out on. Just posted it.
We'll do Mortal next.
Pretty fair video. I think if you like the taste of the gatorade stuff it would be decent to add in some extra sugar and sodium citrate on your own to top it off and still get some of the flavors. The reason why I think perhaps it's a little unfair is how quickly you dismissed the addition of maltodextrin or sodium. I like using maltodextrin because it's not as sweet, but still adds carbs. From a performance side, I've assume it's helpful because it has such a high glycemic index. Is there a reason to dismiss it?
Similar question on potassium. Why dismiss it? Are you saying it's not helping as much as sodium so it's not necessary? Or not helping at all? This is the old wives tale side of me, but there's the whole potassium reduces headaches advice I've grown up with my whole life. It's pretty common for long endurance events for people to get a headache, so I'd assume that potassium could be beneficial here. At a minimum, does it hurt to add? If so, why not add it? Would you be opposed to adding potassium citrate in a home made mix?
You’re right, honestly. I think we overly poopooed maltodextrin in that video. It’s fine. It just often contributes to the unnecessary cost hiking and harmful drifting of the glucose fructose ratio towards 2:1 or below. In this product’s case that actually ended up not being a concern. We filmed after a night of no sleep for me and a very long two days of work. I’ll make that as my excuse. :)
Regarding potassium: more likely to do harm than good, but very small risk and magnitude of harm if added in very small amounts (like 5-25% as much potassium as sodium). Chance of benefiting: near zero. Hypokalemia is rarely problematic compared to hyponatremia or even hypocalcemia.
Hypokalemia is rarely harmful and virtually never disastrous or fatal in sport.
Hyponatremia is common, always at least slightly harmful, often disastrous, and occasionally deadly in sport.
Hypocalcemia is rare but always disastrous once it progresses because of the whole body cramping, and rarely fatal to my knowledge because the symptoms escalate to discomfort so widely and quickly that people get help before they die.
To prevent hypokalemia you need only a very small amount of potassium and often none.
To prevent hypothermia and dehydration, you often need a huge amount of sodium.
To prevent hypocalcemia you usually don’t have to do anything but 5-10% as much calcium as sodium does the trick for virtually everyone who is among the 1-2% of people who are susceptible. (Very high sweat rate, usually larger bodies).
Risk of adding potassium: More gut risk Furthering hydration and sodium needs as your body tries to stave off hyponatremia. Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
I have been a lifelong endurance athlete, to include 3 years of triathlons, waaaay back in the day. I accomplished my goal of completing an Ironman-distance event and moved on to other endeavors. I must say, though, it was not without benefits as I learned a very, very valuable lesson during the 1 IM I did, and that is: NEVER rely on on-course feeding. You can take advantage of it if you wish, but you should absolutely, always, and without fail carry enough fuel with you to finish the distance.
In my case, doing the Cape Cod Ironman in '88, the promoters did not prepare properly and there was ZERO fuel at any of the aid stations beyond mile 10 of the marathon by the time I got there. The only thing that saved me was that a volunteer at one of the aid stations around 20 miles in had his own personal 2-liter bottle of coke in an ice chest, and I was able to persuade him to let me have the last few sips. I had bonked so badly that it took 3 days for my urine to return to normal color.
I did the 100 mile event at Unbound last year and carried all of my calories with me, and would do the same thing for Leadville this year if not for the fact that I'll have a support crew available at two locations throughout the race.
Just replying to the last post on the thread, but not only does mortal hydration not have enough of stuff you do need it does have stevia. So if you are intolerant and also prone to dropping things (like I am) bring double extra of your own stuff. Move on. Keep training. Be an adult.
Folks, please add salt or sodium citrate, or some other sodium supplement if you're 'living off the course' and surviving just off of Gatorade alone.
Let's say I came into some GU Roctane electrolyte capsules at no charge to me.......would these be sufficient to supplement the Gatorade that I'm consuming during a 70.3 (Louisville)?
Yes. Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket. Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
I tried a small sample in the IM tent before the race and the fake sweetner taste was overpowering.
So I didn't touch the stuff on the run.
Never noticed it on the bike, but I was mostly just getting waters to clean up my inadvertent gel bottle explosion out of t1 (sticky bars for 90km, yay!).
For reference the aid station flow was something like, they had water, ice, Gatorade, Mortal, more water and ice. Never noticed Coke, but I'm sure it was there.
The volunteers called out "electrolytes!" for the cups of Mortal.
My personal nutrition/electrolyte mix lasted the whole run for me. Plus I made the maurten move and came back with 5 extra gels...
Any positive stories with Mortal? I did see some dudes leeching a massive amount of salt through their kit. The other problem I see, is even if you get past the Stevia, I don't think you're getting enough salt in the small cups on the run from a single table at the aid stations. Not that I want more tables of it...
I tried a small sample in the IM tent before the race and the fake sweetner taste was overpowering.
So I didn't touch the stuff on the run.
Never noticed it on the bike, but I was mostly just getting waters to clean up my inadvertent gel bottle explosion out of t1 (sticky bars for 90km, yay!).
For reference the aid station flow was something like, they had water, ice, Gatorade, Mortal, more water and ice. Never noticed Coke, but I'm sure it was there.
The volunteers called out "electrolytes!" for the cups of Mortal.
My personal nutrition/electrolyte mix lasted the whole run for me. Plus I made the maurten move and came back with 5 extra gels...
Any positive stories with Mortal? I did see some dudes leeching a massive amount of salt through their kit. The other problem I see, is even if you get past the Stevia, I don't think you're getting enough salt in the small cups on the run from a single table at the aid stations. Not that I want more tables of it...
here was my rough nutrition plan
Starting bottle with 1/4 of the bottle with gatorade and a table spoon of table salt, and then filled with water. I sipped on this concentrate and washed down with Mortal at every aid station (I had around one quarter a bottle of Mortal immediately at aid station and threw it out). I ate a cliff bar up snow canyon, washed it down with water at the top, and cruised into T2 where I had a bottle with 500 mL of coke in bottle that I drank before the first climb at 1km. Rest of run, I had four Maurten Gels and a half a cliff bar, and washed down with water or coke (I am unsure what htye gave out on the run, but I think I had a few sips of gatorade). I will have to tally up the calories, but I am guessing 500 cals from gatorade, 100 cals from Mortal, 150 cals from cliff bar on bike , so 650 on bike, and another roughly 500 cals from gels and half cliff bar on run, plus maybe 200 cals coke so total around 1400 cals for a 5.5 hrs endurance outing at "my race pace" . My energy was steady and no stomach nor electrolyte issues on a day that started around 15C and ended around 31C but with low humidity. I don't know "exactly" the sodium content I took in between table salt and gatorade and Maurten and Mortal, but I think I ballparked it ok....no cramping issues and my loop 2 of run was 2 min slower than loop 1 so no blow up, then again when loop one is so slow, it is easier to even pace and not cramp !!!
For reference in my daily diet I eat anything and everything that is available so maybe that helped deal with a drink I had never touched till race day.
For reference in my daily diet I eat anything and everything that is available so maybe that helped deal with a drink I had never touched till race day.
Laughed out loud because I follow this nutrition plan as well.
FWIW - Tried Mortal at the expo and was not thrilled... but come race day, I was very happy to see it. Took about half of the cup offered at about every other aid station because I forgot my salt on my bike in T2. It seemed to have done the job. Honestly I wished that it was further up in the aid station, after the first go-around I learned the lesson to bring a cup of water with me to the end of the aid station as a chaser to the Mortal. KJ Swim and Triathlon Coach AllTerrainEndurance.com KJ@allterrainendurance.com
I feel like we're all being gaslit that this a better method all because it's too expensive to truck around the sugar bulk for the normal formula...?
Or is it that PFH would be fine supplying the real carb version of their drink, but that's bad optics for the EU to have carbs and the US to be low carb?
just got the email that this will be on-course at 70.3 switzerland. i'm as confused as everyone else - this is basically nuun or similar - it's a flavoured mineral supplement, not an energy drink. are we expected to just carry our our calories? it definitely messes with my plan for the bike. ____________________________________ https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan
just got the email that this will be on-course at 70.3 switzerland. i'm as confused as everyone else - this is basically nuun or similar - it's a flavoured mineral supplement, not an energy drink. are we expected to just carry our our calories? it definitely messes with my plan for the bike.
For a half, it's really not so bad to have 2 heavily concentrated bottles of your own mix and grab water if you want from the aid station. For the full, it's kind of annoying, but doable, to have to cart around 4 nutrition bottles and grab waters as well.
talk me through this - what exactly is going in your bottles and how are you consuming it? ____________________________________ https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan
That is great. I just assumed it did. Props on them for making a quality electrolyte drink. Seems like for IM they should supply the one that actually has sugar in it.... but for IM to be mixing this stuff in bulk I can see how it causes issues if you are trying to mix 20 liters at a time and actually get it stirred together.
talk me through this - what exactly is going in your bottles and how are you consuming it?
Roughly 140g of carbs / water with 1 gram sodium in each bottle. About every 40k try to work my way through one bottle.
And why not concentrate it more? You don't need 4 bottles for an IM. I mix up to 750g of sugar in one 950mL bottle for long bike rides, so you can easily get enough carbs for an IM into two 550-750mL bottles.
talk me through this - what exactly is going in your bottles and how are you consuming it?
Roughly 140g of carbs / water with 1 gram sodium in each bottle. About every 40k try to work my way through one bottle.
And why not concentrate it more? You don't need 4 bottles for an IM. I mix up to 750g of sugar in one 950mL bottle for long bike rides, so you can easily get enough carbs for an IM into two 550-750mL bottles.
Ya, I could. Never tried that much. Just spacing out 40k seems reasonable to make sure I'm getting the timing/dose right.
talk me through this - what exactly is going in your bottles and how are you consuming it?
Roughly 140g of carbs / water with 1 gram sodium in each bottle. About every 40k try to work my way through one bottle.
And why not concentrate it more? You don't need 4 bottles for an IM. I mix up to 750g of sugar in one 950mL bottle for long bike rides, so you can easily get enough carbs for an IM into two 550-750mL bottles.
This is where maltodextrin shines. Sucrose=glucose+fructose. Maltodextrin=long chain glucose. I don't know of any reasonably available long chain fructoses, but just swapping glucose for maltodextrin makes the mix taste less sweet and more 'creamy'. It's still a thick mix, but 250g in a 500ml bottle is the limit of dissolution and leaves you needing ~2 in an IM bike.
talk me through this - what exactly is going in your bottles and how are you consuming it?
Roughly 140g of carbs / water with 1 gram sodium in each bottle. About every 40k try to work my way through one bottle.
And why not concentrate it more? You don't need 4 bottles for an IM. I mix up to 750g of sugar in one 950mL bottle for long bike rides, so you can easily get enough carbs for an IM into two 550-750mL bottles.
This is where maltodextrin shines. Sucrose=glucose+fructose. Maltodextrin=long chain glucose. I don't know of any reasonably available long chain fructoses, but just swapping glucose for maltodextrin makes the mix taste less sweet and more 'creamy'. It's still a thick mix, but 250g in a 500ml bottle is the limit of dissolution and leaves you needing ~2 in an IM bike.
I'm confused by the PF&H thing. It's not like they don't make an energy drink that is specifically targeted at endurance athletes, so it's obviously a conscious choice on the part of IM or PF&H or both, not to offer it. Is it because they already have an energy partner (Maurten?) Or cost?
I do carry all my calories anyway for a half - PF&H 90g gel with a screw top is perfect for the run. I got excited when I first glanced at the announcement as I thought they might be handing out the gels on the run, but sounds like not.
I totally think this is a way for ironman to make two sponsors happy and get more money in the process. Tell Maurten they can be the official fueling partner of Ironman, and whoever ends up winning the hydration bid will become the "Official Hydration" partner. I just wish Maurten would start supplying some 160 or 320 bottles at aid stations, especially on the bike. That would make life easier for many.
Sidenote, but what flavors of Mortal are being provided at the aid stations? I figure they'll use one flavor on bike and a different one on the run like they did with gatorade endurance. USAT Level 1 Coach Team Next Level http://goteamnltri.com/
Plews must have gotten someone at Ironman to convert to LCHF
I bet a lobbyist at The Feed convinced them that water is only for hydration. You need GELS and CHEWS for nutrition! Luckily The Feed is running a sale right now where you can pick them up for just $4.25 each.
talk me through this - what exactly is going in your bottles and how are you consuming it?
Roughly 140g of carbs / water with 1 gram sodium in each bottle. About every 40k try to work my way through one bottle.
And why not concentrate it more? You don't need 4 bottles for an IM. I mix up to 750g of sugar in one 950mL bottle for long bike rides, so you can easily get enough carbs for an IM into two 550-750mL bottles.
This is where maltodextrin shines. Sucrose=glucose+fructose. Maltodextrin=long chain glucose. I don't know of any reasonably available long chain fructoses, but just swapping glucose for maltodextrin makes the mix taste less sweet and more 'creamy'. It's still a thick mix, but 250g in a 500ml bottle is the limit of dissolution and leaves you needing ~2 in an IM bike.
^^^
an so, practically speaking, you've got two bottles on your bike? and one is 'syrup' and the other is water? and you take a mouthful of syrup and then wash it down with water?
I do this and have been very happy with it. In years past I've used powerbar hydro (25g/sachet) all dumped into a big water bottle i carry behind the seat. Then a water bottle between the arms w/ electrolyte in it. My standard 70.3 bike program is 100g carbs/hr from 10 powerbar hydros, big sip every 15 minutes. Then at every aid station I grab a water bottle, drink as much as i can from that, if it's hot, squirt the rest on me and then dump it by end of aid station. Then drink off my electrolyte bottle in between aid stations, usually every 10 minutes. I use a big 32oz zefal bottle for that.
This year i'm leaning towards a DIY fuel bottle with the same idea, but probable more in the 120ish g/hr range. I've been using DIY stuff in training to hit those numbers and seem to be handling it. I am playing around with making a 300g bottle that's 3 caffeine gels (3x25g), basically for flavor, and then 225g table sugar to get carbs up. I might split it 112 malto and 112 fructose, but right now the sugar hasn't been beyond my sweetness tolerance, but I could see how it might be for some. USAT Level 1 Coach Team Next Level http://goteamnltri.com/
I took the opportunity to try Mortal at Gulf Coast 70.3 this weekend. The stuff is putrid. Undrinkable. To quote my niece when she tasted coconut milk a long time ago "this tastes like anus."
I had to gargle water to get the nasty out of my mouth. That drink would have to make me at lest one minute/mile faster before I would consider it. Thankfully, GC 70.3 also had Gatorade on the course. Truly gross. I cannot believe people actually buy it.
I've only tried one of those before and I think it's quite nice actually...
Anus or coconut water? :)
This is in our family lore. We were in the Coke tent after a 10K, and Coke was giving out their new coconut water product they just acquired. I like other coconut water products I tried, but this one was not that good. My niece was like 8 years old, and when she took a sip and dropped that quote, it reduced a crowd of us to tears of laughter. I still laugh a little remembering it as I type this.
Mortal Hydration × 1 
