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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, that is a stupid decision by the team and an equally stupid decision by the UCI.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [WannaB] [ In reply to ]
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WannaB wrote:
No points for Le Samyn, but should be fun. Bunch of Conti teams. Lotto bringing full squad.

Hard to look past De Lie on that one. Though you've got DSM with Degenkobble and Van Uden, and UnoX with Waerenskjold in the mix. I kind of like Le Samyn, which it looks like I'm going to get via Flo but the big news is they've got Strade, which is a recent addition to their lineup. Apparently they've reached an agreement with RCS (the Giro is on the schedule now too). I think that means that's literally every race on Flo for us - being able to get it all in one spot (even if it is Flo) is pretty great (apologies to those in other jurisdictions where you may need 3 different subscriptions).
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [ClayDavis] [ In reply to ]
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Glad to hear of it.

Sport broadcasting rights often treats Canadian viewers quite shabbily. Good to know that for once, things are working out.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Venga did 6.4 - 6.5 w/kg for about 18:30 minutes earlier...my guess is because that is all he needed to do.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [likes_bikes] [ In reply to ]
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Le Sammy:

Fleur de Lie

Turbo Tony Turgis

Degenkholblooded

Slow day......
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Cancellara keeping it real

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/fabian-cancellara-questions-wout-van-aerts-preparation-towards-flanders-and-roubaix-i-dont-know-if-this-correct-or-not?fbclid=IwAR25RtIhdqQANSkBKmqxKWnJg9_jwU4P3HKa8wR_ZTGg2gjBrVvNo_lTaK4

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [WannaB] [ In reply to ]
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WannaB wrote:
Alright peeps. That was an exciting first weekend.

Visma-LaB brought it out there. In here, echappy and likes_bikes put everyone on notice, with neo-pro jmsenger showing some early pop! eb looks lean. heyMartin riding tempo in the bunch so as not to stress his heart, still looking strong!

No points for Le Samyn, but should be fun. Bunch of Conti teams. Lotto bringing full squad. Strade Saturday! Still time for any other lurkers to jump in. I need friends in the groupetto.

I’m sure I’ll be in the grupetto before too long…
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [jmsenger] [ In reply to ]
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Le Samyn women's race was fantastic through and through. Guazzini looked amazing and reminded me of Action Jackson last year at Roubaix. She powered the group off of the front, took the big pulls at the end to keep that group together and hold off the peloton, then backed her sprint. She gets the golden hammer for the week.
Last edited by: likes_bikes: Feb 27, 24 6:42
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting take. As much as we can discuss team and tactics, I don't really see a scenario where Wout gets to the line alone in the big two races. At the end of the day it comes down to what he has left in the tank.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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LuisDF wrote:
Cancellara keeping it real

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/fabian-cancellara-questions-wout-van-aerts-preparation-towards-flanders-and-roubaix-i-dont-know-if-this-correct-or-not?fbclid=IwAR25RtIhdqQANSkBKmqxKWnJg9_jwU4P3HKa8wR_ZTGg2gjBrVvNo_lTaK4


Personal pet peeve of mine. "Keeping it real" (like other such seemingly pithy phrases) has context-dependent meanings, and it could mean anything from "unreserved criticism" to "nuanced and critical analysis", and it's not clear from your post alone which this is. The linked article, which takes some of FC's comments and uses for the title of the article, also engages in a bit of click-baiting, as it effectively takes what it sees as the most "controversial" statement out of context and presents it as if it were the overarching sentiment of the interviewee.

It's also ironic that someone like FC would say things like "At Omloop, they looked in a perfect position with three riders in a break of six and, somehow, they still almost lost the race when it all came back together over the Muur". He himself, on pretty much the same finish, had what appeared to be a sizeable gap in the run-in to Geraadsbergen at the 2011 Ronde, only to be reeled back.

So saying because they got reeled back, their strategy didn't work really isn't shedding much more light than harping the blindingly obvious, for it doesn't address the whys. Such is the ways of modern sport journalism.

So with all of that said, and in an attempt to hopefully offer something of value, a layperson's analysis of the whys.

Most of that gap was eaten up in the run-in to Gerradsbergen, where a gap of 60 seconds (to a lead group of 6) shrunk to 20 seconds (to a flagging solo rider). As is the case with road racing, wind condition and group composition matter a lot. That stretch of road leading into Gerradsbergen is generally going SSE, and it just so happens that there was a semi-strong cross-headwind of ~8-10 mph coming from S to SSW. That's the perfect type of scenario where a group has advantage over a break (whether solo or a group), because those who are chasing can really conserve energy once not actively pulling. This also allows non-pulling team leaders (the likes of Wellens) to fully conserve and blast off on the Muur.

At the same time, this is exactly the wrong type of scenario to fracture the group, for the lone leader has to ride against a rotating collection of chasers in the peloton, while the main impetus in the second group is taken out, as the two strongest riders can't really work to try to stay away from the peloton, while the non-Visma riders also won't be that interested in pulling as they might get countered. In such a scenario, it becomes a bet on a single rider staying away (because a motivated group is likely to catch a semi-concerted second group). Maybe doable if this were WvA or MvdP, but a task too tall for the lieutenants on Visma.

Sometimes in racing, there is a tendency to want to "make the deadweights pay", but choosing when to shed and who should do the shedding are equally important. Those are the underlying reasons why the tactic didn't work.

As an aside, some might ask why Van Baarle succeeded last year using similar tactics (attacking solo on the run-in to Gerradsbergen). For one, he had a very strong tailwind assistance that ensured he can get over Gerradsbergen with a decent gap. Of course, the flip side is that the last 12 km or so were 8 km of cross-head wind followed by 4 km of straight head wind, but the large group was too disconcerted to offer up a chase then (not to mention that he had a teammate who stood to benefit).
Last edited by: echappist: Feb 27, 24 7:36
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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touche

"It's also ironic that someone like FC would say things like "At Omloop, they looked in a perfect position with three riders in a break of six and, somehow, they still almost lost the race when it all came back together over the Muur". He himself, on pretty much the same finish, had what appeared to be a sizeable gap in the run-in to Geraadsbergen at the 2011 Ronde, only to be reeled back."

but also remember that cancellara later in life learned from this and changed his approach. At some point he said something around the lines of "making a big display of power is great for expectations but if I don't win then there was no point"

he has MANY ala wout type of races when he pulled like a mad man only to not win the race.

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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De Lie looking earning his nickname today with his crash and DNF. He looked like he was going to kill.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [likes_bikes] [ In reply to ]
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likes_bikes wrote:
De Lie looking earning his nickname today with his crash and DNF. He looked like he was going to kill.

Not sure what he was so mad about. Maybe he thought he was pushed wider than he wanted in the turn by the team car? It was a weird crash, just slid out on what looked like good tarmac.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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Good points. I wish he stated what you pointed out as opposed to providing just platitudes.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [trail] [ In reply to ]
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There was an interesting article on EC last week on the death of the dominant leadout train, and it sure looked like another example at Le Samyn (M). Uno-X train disintegrated early. DSM's blew up near the flamme rouge as soon as Degenkobble peeled off. Last 300m was a free-for-all.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah at the Flamme Rouge DSM looked locked in, Uno-X also with a solid 3 main train. Both finished off the podium.

Agree with @likes_bikes that the women's race had shades of last year's Roubaix. Great race and victory by Guazzini.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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And Sagan was also guilty of over-working, which at a maximum, cost him MSR.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
And Sagan was also guilty of over-working, which at a maximum, cost him MSR.

Sagan career could have been better than it was, but he always tried the brute force approach

Right now the most savvy racers in the pack in MVPD and Jonas by a long shot.

99.9999999% of the time when they attack the race is over.

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
There was an interesting article on EC last week on the death of the dominant leadout train, and it sure looked like another example at Le Samyn (M). Uno-X train disintegrated early. DSM's blew up near the flamme rouge as soon as Degenkobble peeled off. Last 300m was a free-for-all.

Uno has been built to win that race. They can't be happy.
But give it up for L Rex. He banged the gong.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
likes_bikes wrote:
De Lie looking earning his nickname today with his crash and DNF. He looked like he was going to kill.

Not sure what he was so mad about. Maybe he thought he was pushed wider than he wanted in the turn by the team car? It was a weird crash, just slid out on what looked like good tarmac.

There was what looked like somewhat recently repainted white striping on the road, which can be kind of slippy if the road workers don’t add grit or sand to the paint.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [FLA Jill] [ In reply to ]
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time yet for strade picks? I've seen start lists that look very close to complete.

31K longer - will that change the Pidcock/Tadej long range solo? both those guys have stacked teams.

Tadej P/ Healy / Mohoric
Kung / Danny Martinez

(very hard NOT to pick an Ineos - that is a deep 7 riders / Visma, I think lacks a hilly finisher / Van eetvelt's UAE ride makes it tough to leave him out).
I need a good Tiz connection saturday - i love this race!
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [fredericknorton] [ In reply to ]
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very close to what i was thinking so i'll switch it up a little
Pog, Laporte, Healy
Cosnefroy, Mohoric

but the big question is when Italian dog makes an appearance and if we'll get to see it !
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [heyMartin] [ In reply to ]
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heyMartin wrote:
but the big question is when Italian dog makes an appearance and if we'll get to see it !

I think everyone can agree Giro Dog would be preferable to Strade Horse.
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [ClayDavis] [ In reply to ]
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It's really hard to see past Pog for the top spot, but this year's course might favor someone who knows how to ride in mud. It's been a while since we had Tiesj "Mud Goblin" Benoot win in 2019 (or was it 2018?).

Pog Mohoric Pidcock
Valter Powless

ClayDavis wrote:
heyMartin wrote:
but the big question is when Italian dog makes an appearance and if we'll get to see it !

I think everyone can agree Giro Dog would be preferable to Strade Horse.


I can't keep up with all the nicknames :(

Strade Horse though, is appropriate, as Piazza del Campo in Siena hosts a horse racing event going back centuries.


Last edited by: echappist: Feb 28, 24 7:32
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Re: ***Spoilers*** Bike racing spectator thread 2024 [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Pog Mohoric Pidcock
Valter Powless

I was thinking Valter too. He's shown promise in this race in the past and looks to be on good form. Gravel world champ Mohoric makes a lot of sense too.

echappist wrote:
I can't keep up with all the nicknames :(
Strade Horse though, is appropriate, as Piazza del Campo in Siena hosts a horse racing event going back centuries.

That was more of a reference to the horse that got loose during the women's race in 2022. Didn't know about the horse racing event in Siena, but that works too.
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