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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Knibb is toast today, missed her chance at T1. Front two are the strongest 2, so there are your top spots, the rest will race for the podium it looks like. Americans in the chase too,, so big fight there
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Have Kasper and Linn crashed?
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Knibb is toast today, missed her chance at T1. Front two are the strongest 2, so there are your top spots, the rest will race for the podium it looks like. Americans in the chase too,, so big fight there

Might want to rethink Knibb.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Knibb is toast today, missed her chance at T1. Front two are the strongest 2, so there are your top spots, the rest will race for the podium it looks like. Americans in the chase too,, so big fight there

She sure dropped that chase group with ease for being toast;)

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, my bad. Knibb is now finishing out the podium, and looks to catch the leaders in a few laps. Getting her legs back for sure
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Gonna be a rematch of last weeks race, only Duffy will probably start even with Knibb, this should be good.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Knibb is obviously having to work harder on the bike, but Duffy worked a lot in the beginning and only having Maya puts her in the wind for a lot of the ride.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Knibb fading a bit, understandable after all the matches she burned. Hope she has a good run in her, gonna need it to keep the likes of Potter from catching
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Knibb fading a bit, understandable after all the matches she burned. Hope she has a good run in her, gonna need it to keep the likes of Potter from catching

I would love Potter to get on the podium but I am not sure she can outrun Knibb by 1 min.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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Well they keep talking about Kingma coming off injury, so she could come back to the field
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Well they keep talking about Kingma coming off injury, so she could come back to the field

Potter looks like she is going to run both of them down. Taken 45 seconds out of Kingma and 30 seconds out of Knibb.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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Yes Potter is in striking distance, will likely get Kingma, maybe Knibb
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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Great race from Duffy, off the front all day. Knibb was great, did the ironman virtually solo too. Podium for Potter,she looked stoked, and nice finish for spivey being sick all week, so 2 Americans in top 5. And how about our own Erika getting 14th, that was a great race for her, and hopefully we get a front page article out of this!!
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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SheridanTris wrote:
monty wrote:
I think we need to see a few more ITU races post LC, but I have a suspicion KBs swim has suffered a bit since moving up.

Well if his swim has suffered, then so has 80% of the ITU field. IT seemed pretty obvious(to me) that the front swimmers just took the swim to a new level, meaning Vincent Luis did. He single handily broke the will of the top 20 guys, and split them to just him and 2 others, only letting 5 more reconnect after a murderous chase to get back on the feet. Hard to pin a slower swim on Iden and Blu, because all of the favorites were right there with them too. I would say that all the chasers swam normal times, just the leaders were the ones on a different pace.


Of course everyone now knows it is back to the old Killer B strategy, so everyone will be swimming their butts off to be able to compete and either get in that break, or limit the loss


Blu was right there with Yee and all the other favorites he is usually with, just the game has changed as of today

I think you are omitting several key discussion points.

1. The field was depleted, which generally plays into the hands of the stronger swimmers
2. Blu/Iden are coming off the back of a very long focus on Kona
3. Anyone who raced St George/Kona is going to be carrying a LOT of fatigue
4. The game changes every season, it moves on and improves

Everyone focuses on improving their swim, nothing new. Being in the break isn’t always necessary to win. Yee has won 3 WTCS races this year and I don’t remember him being in the lead pack coming out of the swim for any of them.

There are numerous ways to win a WTCS race. Hayden and Alex are fighting out for WC and I wouldn’t class either of those as a front pack swimmer.

I have seen the draft course maps for the Paris test event in August and it has domestique written all over it, which might negate the strong swimmers.

KB was with all the favourites but not the front pack. You do the AB tactics and you can eliminate him from the podium. But again there needs to be a level of organisation, committment and horsepower to do this. If a runner like VL or dare I say it JB are a minute up the road, I don't care who you are, it's a wrap.

So do tell on the Paris course? Is it crap?
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Great race from Duffy, off the front all day. Knibb was great, did the ironman virtually solo too. Podium for Potter,she looked stoked, and nice finish for spivey being sick all week, so 2 Americans in top 5. And how about our own Erika getting 14th, that was a great race for her, and hopefully we get a front page article out of this!!

Yeh that's BPs first WTCS podium over the Olympic distance, which I think is pretty important given British Triathlon's Olympic selection policy priority for full distance races. Looks like she is on a double peak for the season after the Commy games bronze and some subsequent sub par performances.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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"Not a good day for the boys from red white and blue."

But a good day for blue, white and red!
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Trirunner] [ In reply to ]
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Men's...

Norwegians did much, much better than I expected, but have to remember this is the course they broke through on, signs are there that the move up to LC isn't going to damage to them at SC. Yee seemed way off on the run, he was at the front of the bike a lot, maybe he burnt matches or just got sick or something?

Had a feeling Luis would do well (least one of my predictions was close) never did I expect there to be enough fire power to stay away from a chase group which was obviously going to have Norwegians, Yee, Geens, Murray etc. Don't know where all the comments have come from regarding 'blue prints' and 'this race has changed the game', its not a secret that Yee, Wilde and Blu are not front pack swimmers. When the rest of the top French men are back they have more fire power in that front pack but still don't manage to stay away.

Fair play to the two Spanish dudes, good they've come through now with the loss of Gomez, Mola and Alarza (Mola DNF what happened to him?)
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Women's..

No surprises from Duffy, utter dominance! (She had the fastest run split also, only Potter would have been able compete with her coming off the bike)

Potter is showing great form when she's had a prety mediocre mid season, good to see her run through the field, no surprises to see Knibb ride through the field (thought Knibb and Coldwell would have been able to hang on though)

Did Luis really say he was going to domestique Bergere??
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Adman] [ In reply to ]
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Adman wrote:
monty wrote:
Great race from Duffy, off the front all day. Knibb was great, did the ironman virtually solo too. Podium for Potter,she looked stoked, and nice finish for spivey being sick all week, so 2 Americans in top 5. And how about our own Erika getting 14th, that was a great race for her, and hopefully we get a front page article out of this!!


Yeh that's BPs first WTCS podium over the Olympic distance, which I think is pretty important given British Triathlon's Olympic selection policy priority for full distance races. Looks like she is on a double peak for the season after the Commy games bronze and some subsequent sub par performances.

She was ill twice post Commies, once with tonsillitis and once with Covid.

I think she is only on Podium Potential funding not Podium. I dare them to leave her off it at the end of the year! 3 Podiums, Commies bronze and possibly going to be 3rd int he world.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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OHHH Come on Brooks. Your ITU bias has you brainwashed with how good of a performance these two had. Before this we were going back in forth with how Bergen wasn't WTS caliber field... and now look what they did in a WTS race. Two guys who have just raced IMKona and 70.3 worlds and then come down and do this (all within 1 month!). The likely lack of specificity and fatigue in their legs from racing an IM and 70.3 and then to roll at an ITU intensity and this course.

It's impressive, you cannot deny it.



B_Doughtie wrote:
The game hasn't changed. This simply goes back to the same ole debate we always have. When an course has teeth, it creates much better racing dynamics. When swim courses are in protected waters and on urban non-tech courses, we almost always have 40 guys racing with their hair on fire out of T2. When we have courses we teeth (ocean swell, non wetsuit swim, hard. hilly bike), it can actually show the "depth" of the sport in that it's not just a runners race. Take today for example, Blu and Iden ran shoulder to shoulder with the fastest itu athlete and didn't even get a top 5. That showcases depth.

eta: this wasn't even an full field front of pack swimmers race roster today either.

Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching



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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
Men's...

Norwegians did much, much better than I expected, but have to remember this is the course they broke through on, signs are there that the move up to LC isn't going to damage to them at SC. Yee seemed way off on the run, he was at the front of the bike a lot, maybe he burnt matches or just got sick or something?

Had a feeling Luis would do well (least one of my predictions was close) never did I expect there to be enough fire power to stay away from a chase group which was obviously going to have Norwegians, Yee, Geens, Murray etc. Don't know where all the comments have come from regarding 'blue prints' and 'this race has changed the game', its not a secret that Yee, Wilde and Blu are not front pack swimmers. When the rest of the top French men are back they have more fire power in that front pack but still don't manage to stay away.

Fair play to the two Spanish dudes, good they've come through now with the loss of Gomez, Mola and Alarza (Mola DNF what happened to him?)

It's a blueprint that no one has really been able to implement the past couple of seasons. It isn't really anything new. Think Brownlees particularly AB.

The Norwegian's achilles heel is their swim particularly GI. I'm glad someone exposed this. Makes the racing more interesting moving forward, the belief that you don't need AB in the front pack to stay away. You might start seeing more organisation and committement in these front packs moving forward with this belief.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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Steve I think I’ve said in 2 threads that getting too 10 was brilliant (see the Blu GOAT) . I’ve also said that anyone who had them as favorites I kinda cringe at. This idea that they can just decide on any race distance and dominant ain’t going to happen in itu.

They obviously were going to miss top top performances when they weren’t training that speed (thank you capt obvious). Thus why I’ve said to you, the more they keep going back into the LC training pool before Paris, the more they’ll just keep moving on from an medal winning performance. They have said they’ll skip Kona, but I’ll believe it when I see it. If they go all in on Paris, game on. And thus I said If they actually go back to LC racing between now and then they won’t win a medal. I mean the expectation of Iden medaling isn’t really fair considering he’s never really been able to get to the next level in itu that Blu has (that’s not a knock that’s just easily a fair assessment….he doesn’t have that top top end speed that you need to medal in itu, but neither does 90% of the athletes racing). I think he in particular comes back to itu cus in general it’s probably a hell of a lot of fun for a mid 20’s guy or girl. You get paid to race and the itu community is
pretty close knit and you get to do it every month w the same group. Atleast Blu is a medal contender/reigning champion so it’s not completely out of question for them to keep itu racing as athletes in their 20’s. Especially when they show they are competitive as they have, this isn’t an Frodo moment where it’s “holy shit I can’t compete” type of realization.

But when I hear they are going to show up and be a favorite, I’ll stand on this hill as that ain’t going to happen in a full big boy field. I’m not sure what the push back is. They raced brilliantly as “untrained” itu specifics but to think they can just win at any race any time they want, lol.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Steve I think I’ve said in 2 threads that getting too 10 was brilliant (see the Blu GOAT) . I’ve also said that anyone who had them as favorites I kinda cringe at. This idea that they can just decide on any race distance and dominant ain’t going to happen in itu.

They obviously were going to miss top top performances when they weren’t training that speed (thank you capt obvious). Thus why I’ve said to you, the more they keep going back into the LC training pool before Paris, the more they’ll just keep moving on from an medal winning performance. They have said they’ll skip Kona, but I’ll believe it when I see it. If they go all in on Paris, game on. And thus I said If they actually go back to LC racing between now and then they won’t win a medal. I mean the expectation of Iden medaling isn’t really fair considering he’s never really been able to get to the next level in itu that Blu has (that’s not a knock that’s just easily a fair assessment….he doesn’t have that top top end speed that you need to medal in itu, but neither does 90% of the athletes racing). I think he in particular comes back to itu cus in general it’s probably a hell of a lot of fun for a mid 20’s guy or girl. You get paid to race and the itu community is
pretty close knit and you get to do it every month w the same group. Atleast Blu is a medal contender/reigning champion so it’s not completely out of question for them to keep itu racing as athletes in their 20’s. Especially when they show they are competitive as they have, this isn’t an Frodo moment where it’s “holy shit I can’t compete” type of realization.

But when I hear they are going to show up and be a favorite, I’ll stand on this hill as that ain’t going to happen in a full big boy field. I’m not sure what the push back is. They raced brilliantly as “untrained” itu specifics but to think they can just win at any race any time they want, lol.

can't emphasize this enough. for a lot of young athletes especially, ironman is boring as hell. it's solitary and poorly paid. the racing is a lonely slog and only get to race a few times a year. sponsorship is cobbled together.

meanwhile at short course you're traveling the world with the same bunch of other young, single athletes (!), have federation support (even just for the little logistical stuff like travel and uniforms, not to mention sports meds, coaching, etc), the racing is shoulder-to-shoulder, fast, and exciting, and between superleague, french league, WTCS, classics, etc, you can race all the time.

waaaaay more fun.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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I've never really thought of it like that, if I was Iden I'm staying at IM/MD and I'm going to try and dominate (especially as my current main rival tries to go and medal at Olympics)

This post sold the ITU life to me though, travel and trying to pick up ITU women definitely appeals to me!
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Adman] [ In reply to ]
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Given the way the Tokyo olympics unfolded and next olys in Paris I expect the french army to raise the bar on their swim. If you add Hauser and Jonny Brownlee you have the perfect storm to gap the norwegians, Yee and Wilde. I think it is going to become in a sort of brownleeish show from the old days...by the way, am I the only one who thinks that some people, despite Paris 24, will move into PTO racing? I think it is a good chunk of money for people that are not at the top and can transfer well into middle distance...

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P
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