Pretty much all the top US males except for Pearson and McQueen raced in Bergen WC, including Brent Demarest.

Rider had a really good perforrmance, hopefully he can have a solid finish to the WTCS season.

McElroy happy to see the run is there, he just needs to get that S/B dialed in. He was in the Blu swim pack, and only Blu bridged up to the leaders.

The more I think about it, I would pick the men based on best MTR strategy.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Kevin McDowell, olympic Silver medalist and 6th in the olympic individual race would like to be added to the list of US guys not at Bergen.

I am just curious...what is the matter with US guys? Seems USAT are doing well with the girls, but I cant remember any single guy since Hunter Kemper who can be considered favourite for top 5 or top 8 in the WT series... ITU is not appealing?

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Duh! Oops
Although he doesn’t have real individual medal contending talent so Id still put him in the more MTR than “medal getting” individual talent.

6th at Tokyo wss brilliant and top placement ever for male, but I don’t think he has the run to truly be a medal contender within the individual event, but obviously would be a great mtr leg.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Itu is very euro centric and if you aren’t a top 10 consistent result your making zero money (from itu) . You could be top 20 in the world and living on Ramon noodle and a small wage from your federation support. Which is why then FGP or the German domestic circuit can keep athletes both improving their game and making money. And in the US, DL just has never caught on to give athletes a chance to make a living wage. Itu races have been a financial lose for usat over the last 2 host races, and our domestic DL league just kinda fizzled out. The buy in is so huge from sponsors / host cities that it’s just really hard.

But also keep in mind the US is only missing the top medal contender. US is basically on par with all but a handful of countries in the sport, but by not having a real consistent top talent, middle of the pack finishes have even more of a “meh” feeling.

And of course when your talking about funding, middle of pack finishes just won’t cut it for federations and suddenly funding gets tighter and tighter.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I don’t consider US Tri to be top tier anymore. You have some good (inconsistent this season) women but your men haven’t been anywhere near top tier for a long time.

If Knibb can sort her injury out and Spivey & Kasper can get some consistency back I think the US women will be back at the top by the end of the year/beginning of next season but I really can’t see any US men being back on that podium anytime soon.

The MTR looks like their best chance but GBR and France are way ahead of them and AUS seem to be getting things back together. So a medal at Paris 2024 wouldn’t be guaranteed.

The real issue is that the top US males simply need to race. Pearson hasn’t raced in a year, McElroy is coming back from injury and I McDowell has ups and downs this year.

While I think they need all the breaks to get an podium, having some top 10 results will finally get them on a good ‘mo swing.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Bergen races were a fun watch, and other than the frosty swim, would make a great course for WTCS. I know fairness and everything, but I like these courses designed for country's star athletes... Bermuda for Flora, Bergen for KB... These courses are not flat dashes for cash, and I love that they introduce some challenge into the circuit. We need more of this. They threw a hard technical course in, and both races still ended in a sprint, the women's win came down to .1sec...

Yeah, that course was a hard one for the packs to come together on the bike. I was excited to see Matt come out with (recovering) Johnny and Blu, and the fastest run of the day is such a thrilling weapon to have! I hope he gets a chance this fall season to get off the bike with the front pack…

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

This was paraphrasing from Matt on adventure flying to races these days from an IG post:

Took 40 hours to get there, had only 6 hours of sleep. Airlines lost his bike and he spent entire day talking to them. Friday morning he mentally broke.

Loaner bike was messing with his knee so he was going to DNS. Bike arrived night before race, and he was able to get it built up. Raced to 11th place and fastest run,

Hell of a weekend for him.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

This is one of the more ignorant comments posted on here. The US women currently have 3 women ranked in the top 12 in the world (spivey 6, rappaport 9 and kasper 12) and that does not include its top 2 women (zaferes and knibb) who have not raced this year due to maternity leave and injuries. You are delusional if that is not "top tier" as only GB is better. Germany is similar and then there is a massive drop off after Germany.

USA men do have issues but even with the issues it was 3rd in the MTR WC this year (without pearson who is its best male) after a bronze in the olympics. you are aware that mcdowell was 6th in the olympics and rider was 4th at the grand final last year? it is bizarre that you think that USA men were not "top tier" last year when they were part of 2 MTR medal teams, a 6th in the olympics and a 4th at the grand final. other than GB and France, what other country has those credentials for its men? i'll give you a hint: none.

You do realise this thread is about the here and now, and the road to Paris?????????

So basically you agree with what I have said about the US women and then say it is deluded? Did you actually read the bit where I wrote I think the US women will be back at the top by the end of the season (which is Oct/Nov this year)? Your women have not performed this year and I clearly stated why - that would be the bit where Knibb, Spivey and Kasper are mentioned! I hope Katie has enough time to get back to the top tier before Paris and I hope the short Olympic cycle doesn’t work against her.

To say only GB is better than US is your opinion. GB/France/Aus/Germany have all performed at the top level this season. GB and France are prequalified for 2024. France are one of the strongest nations at the moment.

I honestly cannot remember the last time a US male athlete was on the podium at a top tier WTCS race. Has there ever been a time where more than one US male athlete has been on the podium at a WTCS race?

No, I disagree with nearly everything you wrote and you clearly are out to lunch. I will quote you again:

"your men haven’t been anywhere near top tier for a long time."

2021 was LAST year. You don't seem to like actual facts so I will repeat them again for you: in 2021 the US men were on the podium in the MTR at both the olympics and the MTR WC, had a 6th in the olympics and a 4th at the grand final.

regarding the US women, again, stick to the facts. US women are 3 of the top 12 ranked women THIS YEAR so to claim that they have not performed "this year" again completely ignores actual facts.

here's another gem of yours: "I honestly cannot remember the last time a US male athlete was on the podium at a top tier WTCS race."

how about 2021 when pearson was on the podium not once but twice with a silver at leeds and a bronze at yokohama. how about 2019 leeds when matt mcelroy took the silver, beating gomez, luis (the reigning world champion), schoeman (the reigning olympic bronze medalist), yee, wilde, van riel, connix, le corre, murray, bergere, etc.

i guess it kind of makes sense that you are posting these ridiculous rips on the US men and women when it is clear that you have no clue what the actual facts are.

When I talked about the US men I was meaning men racing (not MTR) and in fact there is no any american right now who can be considered as a favourite in any WTS: IMO Luis, Bergere,Conninx, Geens, Van Riel, Yee, Wilde, Hauser are in the top of the game, and I am not adding Serrat, Vilaça, J Brownlee, and Blum. Making a single podium or a top 5 does not mean someone is consistent, and there have no been US men up there race after race for years.
In Spain, we had Gomez, then Mola and Alarza (so uncountable podiums in the last 15 years) and I dont think the spanish guys are in the top anymore despite Serrat is a top 10 consistent guy and Baxter won a recent world cup in Pontevedra.
Let's see if Pearson comes back in shape and Mc Dowell and Rider get several top 5s...then we might consider US as a powerful male team.

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Pearson - 42nd Tokyo and 24th Abu Dhabi is not top tier or consistent. Hasn’t raced since Abu Dhabi
McDowell - 24th Hamburg, DNF Leeds and 10th Yokohama. 6th Tokyo is top tier. Again not consistent
McElroy - 16th Leeds, 13th Yokohama. Is getting consistent and knocking on the door.

Zaferes - prolific, probably best OD triathlete you have produced after Gwen. Hopefully will make it back for Paris
Rappaport - 26 Hamburg, 46 Leeds, 17 Abu Dhabi. 5th sprint WC Montreal. Inconsistent but is a podium athlete
Spivey - 4th Hamburg, 4th Leeds, 8th Yokohama, 11th Abu Dhabi. Without injury I believe she can be World Champ
Kasper - 12th Leeds, 9th Yokohama. Consistent and knocking on the door. Without injury can be consistent podium
Knibb - 6th Yokohama, 5th Abu Dhabi. Not raced since. Hopefully back on podium before end of season

Not sure what else to say. Your men are not strong or medal contenders this Olympic cycle.

I searched 5 years and couldn’t see last time US had 2 men on the podium at WTCS. I don’t think they have but my memory isn’t as good as it used to be. I got bored and stopped looking.

TBH in this Olympic cycle I can see both US and GB struggling to qualify the 3rd male.

The one thing about the Olympic points is that essentially by not racing yet, your limiting your points to basically next years period (maybe 1 or 2 from this cycle) ….AND a probably bigger issue. You don’t get to replace any “poor” scores.

So a guy like Pearson can grab a top 10 several times but he can also come in mid pack. And so while those top 10 can be great he’s then stuck with basically having to race a full schedule.

So then it becomes will it be a situation for US men where an guy outside the top 3 ranked athletes “steals” an slot like McDowell did by jumping both Hemming and McElroy in Tokyo. And obviously the individual spots aren’t “your” spots, but if your 2 spots only who you got- Rider is a very very good MTR guy imo and if he’s steady enough to be top ranked American does or should that get him a spot (unless all AQ spots get won by podium performances at trial events).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Or the other scenario is you have someone like Yee who suddenly comes up through the ranks and has a couple of fantastic results that catapults him into an Olympic place and sneaks onto the podium in Paris?

TBH Paris is so far away and yet around the corner anything could happen.

Well I'm more talking about the thing where you have guys racing results good enough to get said federation spots and then suddenly come Olympics, someone else "takes" that spot. If you earn it from a trials, etc, fair play. But for it to go to discretion and #4 jumps #2 and #3, who has never had a podium in his life, that can chap people.

Now it all worked out, I'm more suggesting that it gets dicey within federations when that happens too often. IE- you hope the athletes win the spots on their results and not the "discretion".

ETA: Yee was the 2nd best GB athlete in the final Olympic rankings, he "earned" his spot, etc.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I think that is pretty much the problem. Money.

The US women's side is going to be fine because of the NCAA.

USAT gets pretty big crowds for the National Championship events they put on. Any idea why they don't hold elite races at those events?

On Bergen: Since we were talking about the pipeline a few weeks ago, decent runs from Demarest and Bove. Like you said, the guys CAN run, but they have a ways to go to be able to run off the bike. On the disappointing side: I went and looked up Bove's swim times, though, and frankly I just don't see it. He was, at best, an average HS swimmer. Unless he really was just messing around with the sport back then I don't think he has the potential to even crack the second pack in an ITU race. I would have preferred to find out he didn't swim in HS, honestly. (I want to be wrong about that).

Federations are limited in itu events. I believe it’s 3 conti cups per federation plus then any WCTS events.

The 3 conti level events are:
Clermont (early March)
Sarasota (week after Clermont)
Newport Beach (I think they are figuring out the Olympic course w this venue).

Clermont gets replaced by a new event in Utah but this year Utah didn’t happen so clermont rolled back on.

I’m not sure how much “bidding” takes for conti cup hosting but hosting a Wtcs is big bids and lots of costs (we are talking multi day of shutting down cities etc usually). So the last 2 Wtcs level races were a huge lost for usat.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

A few years back lifetime was allowing Kemper, Potts, Haskins and a few others to make a living racing non draft legal Olympic distance (who am I missing?). I think usat should pick up this slack and do it in a draft legal format. It doesn’t have to be for points.

Bove I think is going to have to follow the McElroy pathway, though Bove raced some USAT jr series (he may have even won JR nationals one of the years, I cant remember, he def podiumed). He is likely an MTR target athlete, he's a sub 4 miler PR type of speed. Huge weapon on the MTR scene if he can get the swim there.

Bove is one of those athletes where USAT "loses" them to college, and I think they try in the summers to "keep them in the sport" by putting them in as many races as they can. Just keep the carrot in front of them.
He did win Long Beach ITU earlier this summer. So I think he's going to have to follow the McElroy approach. Swim 5k yards in the morning and 5k in the evening and see where he is at 3 years later. The issue for a guy like Bove, and I've coached usat collegiate recruited athletes as fast as him (Scott Dvorak, Erik Armes)....They just dont realize how much of a grind swimming 10+ swims a week is (at min of that) for guys who "excel" and are at the front of every competition they ever entered, to suddenly realize "shit I'm getting beat by a 10 year old every time I go to the pool". Go look at YT on Ari Klau's (spelling) pages, and this is kinda what he went through, and he improved a bunch under the guidance of James Petersen (JP Elite), but yet he was still well off the itu mark. Like that f'ing sucks. So they just burn out / quit when they realize it's going to take 2-3 years of every day swimming just to get to a level that *maybe* they can finally compete with the swim. Which is why a guy like Pearson who came to the sport and within 8 months was front pack swimmer at world cup events...is like "FUCK YEAH".....we finally got a top 3 runner who oh yeah can swim front pack!!!!

McElroy I *believe* swam 6k yard swim set the morning he ran the ncaa track 10k finals...where he finished 6th 12 hours later. But that was how "invested" he was into making it. So his whole "hard work no talent club", isn't a sticht. Like that's all he's done since he's come to ITU...Worked at it, week by week, and hell even he struggles at the non-wetsuit swims still.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

What's funny about that time period, I cant remember which race it was, but they had this handicap system where the male and females raced together and 1st to the line won. So there was no male and female prize purses, they all competed for 1 purse. They simply handicapped the men behind the women X amount of time (based on the data from the previous races, etc). I cant remember what non-draft races it was, but they did it about 2-3 years maybe 10 or so years ago. Was interesting to watch.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

LifeTime Tri Minneapolis had that Equalizer format from 2002-2006. It was such a big time event in every way from the prize purses to the quality of the fields to the TV coverage....

You have come along with the run speed of some guys. That´s OK, but that´s not enough... triathlon is not just about running (see Alan Webb or see now Beth Potter who runs slower in a WTs than GTB or Duffy). You perfectly know that it is all about the balance: good swim, good bike and good run after a "hard or not so hard" bike. So, you can pick a guy who has the best PB in a 1500m pool freestyle, the best 40k TT and the best PB in a 10k run and might not be the best triathlete. You say there is a guy that runs blablabla...yes, I have heard from dozen of guys who run like hell and did not success in ITU...
KB is not the fastest swimmer, could be considered one of the fastest bikers and definititely not the fastest runner but he is a machine because he is a pure triathlete.
JUst my opinion.

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P