Could do a lollipop with loops in in the park, but hopefully they just leave the course alone and forget about the nebulous 100K distance (I doubt that will be the case)

Thx for posting that interview. JK’s podcasts are not in my rotation so I would have never listened if not for your post.

I thought it was a good interview. To hear they are going to do an specific anti doping program, I’m very skeptical, but that may be way easier to say they are going to do something than actually doing something (they mention specific in and out of comp testing)….I’m super skeptical on that especially when they are going to do in house and getting other agencies to test….which means testing data sorta gets lost imo.

The Malibu race “issue” against SLT (SuperTri now) is imo the only “black eye” against the PTO (in addition to the long delay in releasing the schedule, 3 months “late”). It certainly created a pto vs SLT dynamic whether they wanted to or not by “financially supporting” the old owner.

I'm just going by what PTN reported that there are 11 wild card slots up for grabs with 3 for the men and 8 for the women.//

But I dont think you are. 11 out of 40, unless I just lost all my math skills, is not half, or even near half as you posted here..


And I have some more news for you, there will be no race during their season that has everyone present as you also seem to expect. You use hyperbole wherever you can against this series, do you have some hidden agenda against them? I know there are others here that do, they try to hide it sometimes, but we all know who they are. SO what did they do to get your ire up against the most lucrative pro series ever, in the entire history of the sport?


They have laid out their plans, we know the basics of the contracts of the pros, and there has yet to be one race completed, and you are already disappointed. For me, I'm anxiously awaiting that first race, will be very interested in the wild cards because no doubt those folks will help make the race a little more interesting. And no matter who shows up for their first commitment, there will be a series leader with some narrative going forward to the next stop..

. . . 8 of 20 women missing in the first race is for me still a significant number. Obviously, I know that that the athletes are contracted to race a minimum of 5 races plus the grand final so there are bound to be missing athletes in the start lists. But that weakens the appeal of the series if the PTO wants to attract a new audience. If the T100 races are the gold standard events in the sport, why then are contracted athletes skipping some of the events?

On the narrative, let's go back to the women's race. Say Annie Haug wins Miami. The narrative can be that she won because Ash Gentle didn't race and we'll have to wait until Singapore to see. So my guess is that won't stop unless we get to see the highest ranked athletes racing consistently together which the PTO promised.

I'm not so sure about this narrative that the PTO has only helped the 20 or so contracted athletes.

They've put the top athletes into a new series which leaves more of the money from all of the other races to be shared around the non PTO contracted athletes as there will be fewer top athletes racing IM and 70.3

Added to that there is now the Ironman series bonus.

It's a win for everyone.

We have no idea yet how this works out yet.
But PTO was a pro triathlon organization ( union) at first said the goal was to spread the wealth deeper and give a launching pad for younger athletes to stay in the sport longer to develop, now they are a front pack invitation only for the top 25 men and women.
and without Ironman adding prize money the goal they set out to create would be much worse now.
You say fewer athletes will race Ironman here are some names of the fewer top type athletes that are going to race Ironman [list of blokes]

A flagship event hosted at the famous Escape from Alcatraz triathlon. For sure it will be 100k - I surmise they might make it out towards the outer part of the bike and run course - which seems to be more fun anyways - to keep the Saturday traffic out of anything downtown? Swim at like...China Beach or something? Maybe not - I really wish they would release courses, just like everyone else does lol

The PTO laying on the T100 Series has effectively extracted the top 16+16 from most of the IM and 70.3 races, with the exception of an IM plus Nice/Kona for some, and a 70.3 and Taupo, for some.
This means that for all IM races athletes NOT contracted to T100 will finish higher in the prize list; or just 'IN' the prize list (suspect Texas will be the one exception). So a ranked #18+ pro will reap excellent rewards through the season. Go through a selection of the higher level IMs and 70.3s from last year and see how the results would've turned out without the top athletes there.
In addition, as @ CreativeInkling says, there is now the IM Series bonus ($1.7M).
https://www.ironman.com/...athletes-race-series
Effectively, that could be ascribed as an extra $70k for every 70.3 in the series and an extra $150k for every IM in the series (prize purse split 50/50 M/W).
The top #21-40 who are IM capable will, I presume, choose IM Series races: the prize purses are already bigger and there's a share of the Series bonus to win win. In addition the majority in the #18 - #30 cohort will get at least one T100 wildcard which will be an assured $4k (and rather more with a good result).
@TT says:"without Ironman adding prize money the goal they set out to create would be much worse now!" But they have, so what's your point?
This leaves ALL the other IMs and 70.3s and Challenge/Clash and Roth for those ranked #41 up. And these races have the same prize purse as last year.
@TT says: "PTO . . . at first said the goal was to spread the wealth deeper and give a launching pad for younger athletes to stay in the sport longer to develop." Is this the case? I don't recall those words: perhaps your interpretation?
As for 'a launching pad', far too many athletes (especially in one country) are given an elite (pro) licence - their competitive aspirations are laudable but mostly deluded into thinking a pro licence means there'll be prize money hanging on trees. 'Younger' athletes just have to beat the old worn out ones to access that 'wealth'. Their 'launching pad' is the amateur ranks: use its length wisely.

Who is losing out?

• Challenge Roth, I'm afraid (I think all the other Challenge/Clash races will be fine: and there won't be the top 30 there scooping up the cash so this will "spread the wealth deeper" and offer "a launching pad" for newer pros.)
• The non-IM capable #20-#40 athletes who will likely just get $5k from the IM Series bonus pool.

But anyway, as I hope I've elaborated, there's more wealth to share and it will be shared far more deeply (ie down the ranking order) than in previous years. Hurrah!

I wrote several times there is more money now . . . but again it's just the top 20M/20 F getting the money it's not trickling or developing especially without Ironman added as you said to the non- IM capable athletes # 20-40.
It is going to be a great season and I look forward to it all but why can't we discuss a tiering system now where for example if we break them into PTO ranked #16 will [they] make less$$$ than Ironman ranked # 3 ([who] also won Roth) and if so will some 10-20 seeds for PTO go chase the tier 2 to claim championships??

@TT says: "PTO . . . at first said the goal was to spread the wealth deeper and give a launching pad for younger athletes to stay in the sport longer to develop." Is this the case? I don't recall those words: perhaps your interpretation?
As for 'a launching pad', far too many athletes (especially in one country) are given an elite (pro) licence - their competitive aspirations are laudable but mostly deluded into thinking a pro licence means there'll be prize money hanging on trees. 'Younger' athletes just have to beat the old worn out ones to access that 'wealth'. Their 'launching pad' is the amateur ranks: use its length wisely.

Who is losing out?

• Challenge Roth, I'm afraid (I think all the other Challenge/Clash races will be fine: and there won't be the top 30 there scooping up the cash so this will "spread the wealth deeper" and offer "a launching pad" for newer pros.)
• The non-IM capable #20-#40 athletes who will likely just get $5k from the IM Series bonus pool.

But anyway, as I hope I've elaborated, there's more wealth to share and it will be shared far more deeply (ie down the ranking order) than in previous years. Hurrah!

"There are many other ways to spend money to develop athletes" Perhaps you could suggest some? Take a pro licence and get a $20k handout?
"Athlete's (sic) Union masquerade" Perhaps you could help us with examples of evidence
of this, preferably not years old.
"effectively compelled all the pros to sign a 'contract'" The athletes did this of their own volition. Compelled? Do you mean by saying: "there's going to be a bonus pool; do you want to compete for it?" Note that PTO gratuitously paid out (was it >)$1M flat rate per capita across ?100 top professionals when racing was halted by SARS-COV-2 in spring 2020.
"real estate" All athletes could (and do) advertise the kudos of PTO membership by the logo on their trisuit. Athletes way off the pace continue to do this " Look, I'm a professional!": they don't have to.
"the vast majority never got a dime" and "the bonus pool that only touched the top end of the sport" Well there are less than 300 proper professional (longer than standard distance) athletes in the world (being generous with my threshold for "professional" here: 'elite' maybe), so immediately (May 2020) that assessment is false. 2021 (and 2022?) the PTO EoY bonus pool stayed paying 100 iirc, So a sizable minority DID "get a dime". I suggest providing support to the top 100 is reaching well below the "top end" into the middle of the pack. A fair few will never have won that amount of prize money in a year from IM/Challenge race results.
Dropping down to the EoY bonus pool paying down to top 50 last year increases the validity of your point. I guess with only so much money (NB now upped to $7M), if it's spread too thinly it loses its desired effect. And PTO's model has shifted as they try to meet their strategic aims.
"they [haven't] helped professional athlete development" I have endeavoured to explain (see post above) how athletes choosing to take a professional licence benefit from the T100 tour indirectly three fold:

• Top athletes no longer scooping IM and Challenge race podia money. (See estimates below)
• Next tier athletes no longer scooping minor race podia money (because they will concentrate on the IM Series races, if they they're good enough and IM capable)
• The vision that there is reward if they develop to being seriously competitive elite athletes
  

Thorsten's analysis (for 2023):
https://www.trirating.com/...riathlon-money-list/
IMs and 70.3s: $4.4M total
Challenge/Clash/other (non-drafting LC): $1.6M total
[I have made approximations, extrapolations and assumptions below, obviously: please go and enjoy Thorsten's very readable and lucid article from which the base data are drawn.]
The T100 (20+20) athletes won (prize money and EoY PTO bonus) $3.7M. Of that about $750k for IMs, $350k for 70.3s and $200k for Challenge+. $2.4M from PTO.
This suggests that there's >$3M of IM&70.3 prize money available next year for all non-T100 athletes to earn, to which should be added perhaps $800k of IM Series bonus money (some will be taken by T100 athletes who race Nice/Kona plus qualifier) plus most of the $1.6M Challenge et al prize money.

"There are many other ways to spend money to develop athletes" Perhaps you could suggest some? Take a pro licence and get a $20k handout?
"Athlete's (sic) Union masquerade" Perhaps you could help us with examples of evidence
of this, preferably not years old.
"effectively compelled all the pros to sign a 'contract'" The athletes did this of their own volition. Compelled? Do you mean by saying: "there's going to be a bonus pool; do you want to compete for it?" Note that PTO gratuitously paid out (was it >)$1M flat rate per capita across ?100 top professionals when racing was halted by SARS-COV-2 in spring 2020.
"real estate" All athletes could (and do) advertise the kudos of PTO membership by the logo on their trisuit. Athletes way off the pace continue to do this " Look, I'm a professional!": they don't have to.
"the vast majority never got a dime" and "the bonus pool that only touched the top end of the sport" Well there are less than 300 proper professional (longer than standard distance) athletes in the world (being generous with my threshold for "professional" here: 'elite' maybe), so immediately (May 2020) that assessment is false. 2021 (and 2022?) the PTO EoY bonus pool stayed paying 100 iirc, So a sizable minority DID "get a dime". I suggest providing support to the top 100 is reaching well below the "top end" into the middle of the pack. A fair few will never have won that amount of prize money in a year from IM/Challenge race results.
Dropping down to the EoY bonus pool paying down to top 50 last year increases the validity of your point. I guess with only so much money (NB now upped to $7M), if it's spread too thinly it loses its desired effect. And PTO's model has shifted as they try to meet their strategic aims.
"they [haven't] helped professional athlete development" I have endeavoured to explain (see post above) how athletes choosing to take a professional licence benefit from the T100 tour indirectly three fold:

• Top athletes no longer scooping IM and Challenge race podia money. (See estimates below)
• Next tier athletes no longer scooping minor race podia money (because they will concentrate on the IM Series races, if they they're good enough and IM capable)
• The vision that there is reward if they develop to being seriously competitive elite athletes
  

Thorsten's analysis (for 2023):
https://www.trirating.com/...riathlon-money-list/
IMs and 70.3s: $4.4M total
Challenge/Clash/other (non-drafting LC): $1.6M total
[I have made approximations, extrapolations and assumptions below, obviously: please go and enjoy Thorsten's very readable and lucid article from which the base data are drawn.]
The T100 (20+20) athletes won (prize money and EoY PTO bonus) $3.7M. Of that about $750k for IMs, $350k for 70.3s and $200k for Challenge+. $2.4M from PTO.
This suggests that there's >$3M of IM&70.3 prize money available next year for all non-T100 athletes to earn, to which should be added perhaps $800k of IM Series bonus money (some will be taken by T100 athletes who race Nice/Kona plus qualifier) plus most of the $1.6M Challenge et al prize money.