Inevitably that leads to an echo chamber of not being able to really crack that top 16 for the following year, unless you win IMWC and some gold tier events.

It’s where the PTO both being a race production company and a ranking/advocacy group don’t align on mission.

That said, looking forward to what they present for a product this year. The NASCAR team is contracted for the CLASH based broadcast, which is a good way to start the year.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

That’s good re: nascar

That 2020 Daytona race remains the high water mark in my head for triathlon coverage quality

I'd really like for them to fully shed their "advocacy group" nonsense. Either jettison the "athlete board" or call it an "advisory group". But I'm sure the people behind that have a lot of ego.



I call it the ITU on this board keep telling me NOOOO, it is WORLD TRIATHLON...World Triathlon is a DBA.


This sport and its athletes love blood money. Mortiz Events to join the sportswash!

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

The aspiration, need even, to ensure this is not a closed league is an aspect that the PTO has to finesse and have various mechanisms to consider. Promotion/relegation will become a key aspect of the 'story' later in the season: they need to take actions as early as Singapore.
It seems to me this has not been modelled with sufficient care. One of the aspects of the (2024 contract) 'offer' to athletes was the imperative to get on board or you may not be able to next year (as I argued in the 2023 PTO thread) - almost a 2+ year deal.
(From https://t100triathlon.com/pro-series-explainer/ and Renouf's PTN pod answers)
Make or break for 2025
". . . there’s also the opportunity for athletes to earn their T100 contract for 2025 – or the jeopardy of losing their place in the series if they don’t perform. The top 10 athletes in the T100 standings at the end of the season will guarantee . . a contract in 2025, whether their (sic) a 2024 contracted athlete, Hot Shot or a Wildcard. ["Hot Shots are contracted athletes"]

"The next 6 contracted athletes for 2025 will be decided through PTO World Rankings, the contracts going to the 6 highest-ranked athletes who haven’t already earned a contract regardless of whether they’ve raced T100 or not. The final 4 contracts will go to Hot Shot athletes."

The issue is the PTO ranking points that will be scored by

• athletes outside the 2024 EoY top 10 T100 Tour athletes
• versus
• points scored by an athlete of similar calibre but not contracted this year

Note: The latter will be those currently ranked below #17 or draft illegal parvenus (ex-ITU, pre- or post-Paris) https://stats.protriathletes.org/rankings/women and very likely have raced one or two T100 races with wildcards

To ensure promotion opportunity (and concomitant relegation) PTO could:

• Revise the conditions for contract renewal - for example changing it to 8 assured renewals. But in practice, #10 on the T100 list (on 1 Dec) will surely be in the top 15 of the PTO rankings at EoY.
• Grade the first seven races as Platinum as opposed to Diamond and keep only the Grand Final as Diamond (along with the IMWC). Renouf answered/argued that the T100 races completely deserved 'Diamond' status as, in the round, each offers way more than the $500k threshold in remuneration (overall 'compensation' for the T100 Tour is >$7M: contracts plus race prize purse plus T100 Series winnings)
• Ensure that the wild cards are offered with this aspect in mind: enabling athletes to challenge the top tier and, by excellent performance, gain T100 points (chance of making the GF) and high PTO Rankings points (only need 3 scores in the year) The challenge will be that there'll be very few wild cards (for WPro) in Las Vegas or Dubai as all contracted athletes will race.
• Increase the number of starters in the Grand Final (to allow good PTO Rankings points to be scored and keep those athletes 'in the story').
  

PTO Rankings points:

• The SOF of the T100 races will be higher than every other race (even the IMWC).
• Clearly it's easier to score highly on the top races in a field where the top athletes (at least 5) start.
• All T100 races are shown as Diamond (only other is the IMWC). PTO Rankings remain best 3 on a rolling 365 day basis.
• The 70.3WC is Platinum, as is Roth and the WT designated LDWC (Townsville I think).
• The top IMs and some 70.3s (roughly the IMs and some 70.3s in the IM Series) will be Gold. But the SOF of, for example, IM Texas (even though that race is going to be stacked) will be (my estimate) 4 lower than T100 Miami so points lower.
• In December PTO will be faced with the dilemma of needing to get 2025 contracts out and get them accepted but yet wait (I hope) for the Taupō results/PTO Ranking scores to inform those final 6 AQ contract recipients.
• The 4 'Hot Shot' discretionary picks may offer them enough flexibility.
  
• PTO will want to maintain their grip on the narrative and be somewhat irritated to find Taupō being the focus of the promotion /relegation 'story'; because it surely will be: the SOF will be high with all the top athletes extending their season (if bodies still in one piece) to travel early December from the 'Middle East' (GF venue) down to Auckland.
  

LCB doing a bit of clean up on aisle 3 on her IG today.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

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Only because the usual internet trolls have decided to become outraged at her preference not to race Nice this year.

You can't win when you are in the public eye and people attach themselves personally to brands (or athletes/celebrities) to the extent that they take it personally when you don't do or say what they think you should.

Except Sam has mentioned models such as the relegation model in other sports. He is no dummy. He will find a way to get fresh blood into the system.

The PTN interview was really well done. The questions were sharp and the answers seemed sincere and no BS.

As for missions not aligning, when there is no infrastructure accessible to you, and you want to build, sometimes you need to create the infrastructure that's missing. Good thing they have deep pockets.

Gotta ask the missus for permission to join the party...

Sam is really good at spending other folks money.

The relegation model of field sports isn't applicable to this as triathlon isn't deep enough to support multiple tour levels like Golf is. Nor is it popular enough to sustain a professional only event.

How many of those have existed? Island House, Colline Cup, and Couples Championship?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Frankly, I think it'd be *great* if World Triathlon took over the rankings aspect, with PTO/T100 and other race producers focused on the commercial interest. Not too far off from the FIA/F1 arrangement.

Although that Andretti debacle shows that model isn't perfect, either.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Agreed PTO could hand it off the WT if there is belief they won't F it up.

Give PTO credit, they created a ranking system that works. They wrote down the rules, everyone knew the rules and they executed. They went from 0 to something pretty good in 2 years

Yes, execution can now be handed off.

Then again, they paid for this all, should they not have some strong influence on it moving forward ?

There is a simple way for IM events to get higher status : pay more. Super simple.

World tour cycling has 18 teams. Every cycle, bottom 2 teams get relegated, 2 teams come up. Top teams in the division below get invites to the big league.

Super simple.


They did simple math in that podcast
8 races x 20 spots = 160 spots
6 commited races x 20 = 120 committed starts

this leaves 40 spots for wildcards to gather precious points

Go to 10 races, more wildcards available
Add a few starters (say 25), more wildcards available
Use a simple relegation
Use discretionary picks
.....
It's ain't brain surgery


As for Sam spending others money, I am sure a person with your financial industry saviness acknowledges that every CEO of a VC funded company is really good at spending other people's money.

Bet he will join. As a commentator of course.

I think that, especially with World Triathlon, they'll want to eliminate any sense of bias in the criteria, etc. But that's spitballing.

As for the IM events...well, the easy solution is what I think is coming next -- the concentration of all prize purses to those events that count in the Pro Series.

What still remains to be seen is how industry sponsors respond. Many of them have traditionally paid either less money, or no bonus money, to non-IM events unless it got specifically negotiated in. My guess is that it'll change following this year, but then again, our industry isn't exactly known for moving *that* fast when it comes to the business end of things.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

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The way the PTO have continued to post "Jan Frodeno moments" on Facebook,I wouldn't have been at all surprised to see him invited to make a celebrity appearance on the start line of a couple of the races.
Would be good to hear him commentate for a few of them though.

i guess the one issue here is pto pays for the yearly bonuses so i guess one could argue they should also be in charge or at least somewhat at charge .

personally i want itu to stay out of this as much as possible as it would likely get too political , at the same time i also agree pto should not be totally in charge of it. difficult to find a good way here ... maybe we still need a proper pro triathlon organisation to be involved in the world ranking procedure .

IMO, the PTO ranking is close to perfect. They've developed it from the ground, it's theirs to manage.

How do you know it is internet trolls, as opposed to say Ironman itself? If I worked for IM, I certainly would have wanted to give her a call and let her know that her video was not well received or good for Nice. It's also quite possible that she decided to issue the clarification herself. I imagine LCB has positive feelings toward IM and is grateful for the opportunities it has provided. She's particularly invested in the success of women's WC and does not wish to harm IM, Nice, or women's racing. Her decision to do the T100 was, just like everyone else's, a business one. When she realized that the manner in which she presented her decision was potentially harmful to Nice, she felt regret and issued a follow-up statement. Maybe the 'trolls' had little to do with it.

I think this is because so many normal citizens / triathletes can not keep up with the different race companies etc if you read the comments on stuff people don’t get it .

They think if you sign with one you can’t do the other , etc .

I mean if someone in the pto stays injured for the first couple of races or they see they are way back and can’t crack the top ten they could change their focus and go towards a nice world championship. They could just race pto at a lower effort to make the 6 races required for the $$$$.

I am worried with all this racing we the viewer are about to see lesser quality racing and performances the next x years while it continues.

Ten years ago we knew you all had to be ready in x date in kona , that’s the race one and only.

Now we have a ton of races and then t100 will have guys and gals that would win Roth but are now 10 th in California t100.

Instead of one Super Bowl we now have a crap load of regular season and then a bunch of playoffs called championships.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

i would agree with you that it was very good 2023. at the same time i think what some people here suggest is that there is of course some risk to give their races too many points and the atheltes that have the most votes are by and large the ones in the pto series so there could be some bias by those atheltes. iam not saying this is the case. but i can see where people are coming from that suggest that this could be the case.

Can you ask these questions to Sam next time or maybe they have been answered?

How do they plan to make money ?

If they don’t want commercials during their broadcast how do they make money ?

If they don’t hold their own age group races how do they grow a fan base?

Not to ask him but he said the schedule was not to cross dates with other races but

I believe these are all pretty close together

Singapore- Texas
California - Roth
London - Olympics
Ibiza - nice
Vegas- kona
Grand final - 70.3 worlds
( I know there are only so many weeks a year so they will always be kind of close? )

What a coincidence but what a gamble you are going to compete every event with social media and content overload ? If you don’t win that the growth would end right there in year 1 .

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Work in field sports. Fortunately or unfortunately I know a lot about spending other peoples money as well as building schedules. And also in the start up space.

At the end of the day, if Moritz and his investors are ok with bleeding money like this and Renouf can show a tangible path to cost neutral and then profit. PTO stays alive. But remember, PTO has an executive chairman whom they pay. Their entire board might be paid.

They have a larger staff than the one I currently work on. So their overhead has to be incredible.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

at the same time the pto announcement in the first 48 hours got slightly more clicks here than the new ironman ceo annoncement in the firt 48 hours , and i guess in a way while they bleed a lot of money they also attract a lot of attention against the leader of the market , they are the first organisation that really is passing ironman in entanglement and of course ST is not triathlon but if you cant mange it on st you have no chance at all . so the question here is should they spend less and get less engagment or does it work better to go all in. and i guess anybody that thinks that there is sustainable pto model would likely suggest go all in.
IE the model is going to work or not but i guess by spending less they does not increase the chances to work and i guess they have longer staying power than most would have thought at the beginning.
i mean it was you who said no way will they get 8 races this year , they did. the athletes know the locations.
and i guess we cant deny that ironman is feeling the pressure right now despit having the more sustainable model they are under pressure. and i guess from the triathlon side ironman does not increase its resale value at the moment. they dont control the narrative of triathlon at the moment. they will likely win but right know they are not controlling it. and i guess by starting the ironman pro series maybe ironman shows they are not anymore 100 percent confident that pto will fold quickly.

The T100 will make a great replacement for Ironman 70.3 as a race, if they can get the course design interesting for an age grouper. If it's just a bunch of laps, no chance.

But T100 will always struggle in the broader culture to be as impact full as Ironman. I can absolutely see T100 upsetting local age races that aren't Ironman. I wonder how long if ever the T100 would take to mean anything at the water cooler conversation on Monday that doesn't end up with, "it's like an Ironman" shorthand. That alone means most of those personal life goal sign-up peoples that dream of "Ironman" will never even learn of T100 until they've already done several Ironmans. So best case scenario when it comes to AG races T100 is vying for a small share of the customers lifespan of a declining market? How many T100 racers will there be? Clash Miami had what, 500 racers? Can T100 get to 2000? Do they even want that many?

The idea of a 100k race is pretty cool and it's just *that* much easier than a half IM that I can see customers being happier with it. I've already marked Vegas on the calendar. I do wish PTO success, despite my various criticisms or skeptical takes. I just hope they hurry up and buy Ironman already. Ironman 100 makes a better name and then all those 70.3 medals become "collectors items" hah.

As you say, there's only so many weeks in a year. I am surprised there aren't T100 races in mid May nor in late August/early September: seem like gaps: maybe a race fell through.
As to your list (and WPro only)

• Singapore - Texas: I suggest that only half a dozen contracted athletes will want to race Texas to qualify or validate for Nice and to stay in the IM Series convo: they'll miss Singapore (as one of their two misses and avoid stomach issues).
• California - Roth: 8 June v 7 July - not a clash. How many will actually want to do Roth anyway? I guess an IM capable athlete who decides not to race Nice could do Roth as their one LD of the season: in which case miss the Pacific Ocean (or a harbour on the west coast).
• London - Olympics: No Olympic athlete is going to be racing London but they only have to race 3 races plus GF, so not an issue.
• Nice - Ibiza: For the men not an issue; for the IM capable women (6? and ?still hanging in there for the IM Series) either a miss or a warm down: fulfilling contractual obligation but not expecting it to be one of their scoring T100 three.
• Las Vegas-Kona: For the women not an issue: for the IMWC headed men (max 8): one of their two misses. Plenty of post Olympics hopefuls to fill the wildcard spots (though will clash with Superleague (assumed)).
• T100 Grand Final - 70.3WC Taupō: 15 days apart. Everyone stir crazy by then and either injured or desperate to have some weeks easy.