I don't understand why no one is making an update P1 or P3SL frameset anymore as a budget tri bike. I know alloy isn't sexy but Trek's ALR series tubes and Specialized E5 Smartweld tubes are really good and the tube shapes on the old Cervelo's are pretty modern. A bit of re-shaping around the head tube and you could have a serious TT rig that would stand up to travel abuse better than any carbon bike. I for one would give up a bit of speed if it meant saving £1-2k on a bike that I didn't have to baby so much when packing and unpacking from races.

My apologies if this has been posted previously. Triathlete magazine conducted a bike census at Kona in 2019 < https://www.triathlete.com/...cervelo-reign-again/ >. The following are the results. The link is worth visiting. It has a breakdown for wheels, groupsets, pedals, saddles, and other components.


Cervelo – 489
Trek – 258
Felt – 190
Specialized – 184
Canyon – 179
Quintana Roo – 122
Argon 18 – 117
Scott – 103
Giant – 84
BMC – 77
Ceepo – 65
Cannondale – 47
Ventum – 43
Liv – 32
Dimond – 24
Cube – 23
Orbea – 20
Fuji – 18
BH – 10
Pinarello, Simplon, LOOK, Ridley, Airsteem – 9
Wilier, Kestrel, Planet X, Focus – 8
Parlee, Factor, Merida – 7
Stevens – 6
Kuota, Boardmann, Blue – 5
Storck, Rose, Guru, Garneau, Rose, Colnago – 4
Litespeed, Diamondback – 3
TriRig, Premier, Squad, Anchor, Cuierciotti, DeRosa, Pardus, Sopta – 2
Jamis, Epoca, Aerocat, Spinaro, Pacer, DEAD, Issac, ADR, Nodo, Softride, Java, Kemo, Piton, Serotta, Avacon, Silverback, Dolan, Griffen, Avanti, Dolan, Anderson – 1

Felt did for a while, the s22, specialized had an aluminum transition, and I believe trek did as well. Nobody bought them

I see your point but I think the bikes you referenced are case and point how companies previously have done it wrong.

As a point of comparison the Specialised Allez sprint is a bit heavier and a bit slower than the standard Venge but in terms of price the Venge frameset is $2000+ more than the alley sprint. The problem with all those bikes you listed is they were only $500-600 less than the equivalent carbon bikes available at the same time. Where's the extra $1500 gone? Its not wonder people didn't buy them because the pricing and specc'ing wasn't right. Clearly the value for the consumer was in the carbon.


What I am suggesting is that someone sells an alloy bike with race wheels, full carbon cockpit and an electronic groupset for the same price as their entry carbon option. This is going to be around $1500-$2000 off their equivalent carbon option but doesn't have to fight to be the lowest MSRP on the market. The dollars seems to add up based on the Venge/Allez comparison and with the big companies making their components in-house it wouldn't be hard for them to do. On a TT bike I don't really care about the few hundred grams the alloy will add vs carbon. I am sure you can make carbon tubes more aero but I suspect the differences are marginal once you add the rider and the starting point is tubes like what is already being used on the Allez sprint.

Overall this means a sub-£3k fully race ready electronic equipped race bike. To me that is values for money and should sell a lot better than trying to use alloy to scrape the bottom of the Tri market.

It's the box shape. When the IA was announced and those bosses were available but Felt hadn't released their version of the box, many went with a QR box and it fits pretty wonderfully



Not worth $80 to me, but for some it may be.

I picked up this frame for next to nothing without a seatpost clamp and added:

- Custom seatpost clamp made by local high school shop class
- Pro Missile Evo cockpit (tilt kit on route)
- DIY top tube bosses for PD ATTK
- PD aeria stem/hydration
- Sram Etap 1x
- Absolute Black 50t oval direct mount on Sram CX1 carbon crankset
- Stages power meter
- Tririg Omega X and Styx
- Zipp Super9
- Generic 88mm tubeless carbon front
- GP5000 TL front and w/ latex in the Super9
- Dash saddle
- YBN SLA110-TIG chain
- Look Keo carbon Blades

20.75 lbs fully loaded with pedals, hydration nose cone and race wheels.

There you go! Looks much better. If it is not geometry.then i dont understand the funky look of it

Pretty much why I'm still racing it. The frame is bullet proof, no proprietary parts, standard FSA Mega or Hollowtech BB, and it came with Ultegra drivetrain. I've won my age group in every local tri I've entered, and even won a few small sprint tris. It's beaten the shit out of a lot of carbon. It came with base bars, I actually retro fitted the drop bars, simply because I prefer to climb and ride on the drops, out of aero. I like it enough, that I would be more inclined to buy a more modern aluminum frame, than carbon. Until then, she's good to go.

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Athlinks / Strava

No, it hasn’t. You have beaten the other riders. Your frame is likely slower than just about every modern frame—certainly than all the newer Cervelo frames. Kudos to you for overcoming that deficiency and still winning, but make no mistake, you would be faster on a NP2.

I no longer ride as steep as this photo from 3 years ago...old age happens.

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DFL > DNF > DNS

It's not about the size of your flat kit but how you stuff it...

No arguments from me... heck, my tri friends and I go round and round about stuff like this. Would I like a new bike? Of course. Am I willing to spend $5K for one? Not really. I'm retired living on a pension. I'm old, my PR's were all 25 years or more ago. I'll never be as fast as I once was, so time/speed isn't that important. I can clean up my local age groups with what I have. But on the national full IM scene, I'm a good hour away from an age group podium, or KQ. I'm pretty much as good as I can get, and I'm just not that much of a bad ass, in the big picture.The few minutes a new carbon bike would give me, wouldn't make much difference. But... an affordable more modern, more aero, aluminum version would certainly interest me. That might be a good topic for a whole other thread. Most of the folks here are pretty serious racers with deep pockets. But I'm betting there are a good number of beginners and age groupers that would be interested. I see a lot of aluminum road bikes at the local tris. Just have to wonder how many of those would be tri bikes, if an equally affordable version was available.

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Athlinks / Strava

Would happily challenge you to a race on my P5. May the best man win. For carbon or alloy glory.

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CG

shared SC love..

looking clean AF

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Very nice, but every test I've seen shows the bottle on the down tube is faster then seat tube. This would be my only issue.

Will shift, also keen to test vs an old specialised virtue bottle I have sitting in the shed that looks like a pretty sweet fit.

The bottle holder is wider than the downtube, but surprisingly it tested faster than the Elite bottle I had.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Awesome, those are the two bottles I was trying to decide between.

Thanks for the info!

What do you think about the bottle itself? I bought it, and after holding it and feeling it for just a couple minutes, it just felt so cheap, would be hard to squeeze and handle and use in a race. It looks awesome, but the primary purpose of a bottle in that position for me is hydration so I just didn't think this one would be very practical.

I started with a Kestrel Talon X Road. My idea was that I could convert it back and forth between a road bike and a triathlon bike. It made a fairly decent road bike, but it was awkward as a triathlon bike. The seat post had to be turned around to get a decent aero position.





I am now switching to a Specialized Shiv Elite. I am wondering about the posts above that state the water bottle is more aerodynamic if attached to the down tube rather than the seat tube. I see older versions of the Shiv that had the water bottle attached to the down tube, but my bike has the attachment bosses on the seat tube only.

Just an FYI, which may change what you buy, the Cervelo bottle can't be replaced without purchasing the whole thing, so $50USD. Where as the Elite you can simply get the bottle, so easier to replace and could even swap it out at special needs and only be out ~$10 rather than $50, which is a bit easier to swallow......

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

If you don't have the option I wouldn't really worry about it. Nothing you can do.

Cube Aerium C:68

cassinonorth, what saddle is that on the felt?

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80/20 Endurance Ambassador