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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
dfru wrote:
marcag wrote:
dfru wrote:
[

I assume that you didn't test flat hands (like in the velodrome) based upon the outside video (scripted lol) but maybe you did.


No, we went from 25+ to 15ish but not down to 0. I think he wants to try it.


I am sure - there seemed to be a lot of riding in that position in the new video. Looking forward to more from this - no matter how much my brain likes the looks of the hands being higher haha


3 days of testing soon. Not sure if he will be filming any. Hope not :-)

Fair enough - I'll send my phone number over DM if you need any help haha

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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He is wearing Hoka shoes at end of the video.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [triguy1956] [ In reply to ]
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triguy1956 wrote:
He is wearing Hoka shoes at end of the video.

He should definitely try Rocket X 2. They are better than Asics.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [s13tx] [ In reply to ]
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What are the odds he goes to Germany, does a load of tunnel testing, they design him a custom bike, and he then chooses to race using his old bike next season. Kind of pink, but actually wouldn't be surprised.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [James2020] [ In reply to ]
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I'm wondering what are the odds he's still with Canyon next year. He's ramping up a lot of aero testing before the year is out and his contract, presumably expires. Maybe he's about to discover and publish data that a new bike sponsor reduces his CDA dramatically?
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Lurker4] [ In reply to ]
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I have a feeling he's doing aero testing because that's the shiny object he's focused on at the moment. When this is all over he'll have more questions than answers, but will have a cool new POC helmet.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Lurker4] [ In reply to ]
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Lurker4 wrote:
I'm wondering what are the odds he's still with Canyon next year. He's ramping up a lot of aero testing before the year is out and his contract, presumably expires. Maybe he's about to discover and publish data that a new bike sponsor reduces his CDA dramatically?

He is the Golden Goose for Canyon. No one gets the exposure that he does. There is zero chance they dump him. Results aside, this thread is proof. There were a lot of videos released by pros the last 7 days and not a blip on ST, he releases this and gets 3 more pages lol.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Th4ddy] [ In reply to ]
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Th4ddy wrote:
I have a feeling he's doing aero testing because that's the shiny object he's focused on at the moment. When this is all over he'll have more questions than answers, but will have a cool new POC helmet.

I don’t think so. He used to have an advantage on the bike that he’s now lost. Barring a miracle on the swim, he needs that advantage back to stay relevant for the run.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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Can someone please refresh my memory, if I am not mistaken, Lionel did 360 watts in 2013 70.3 World Championships in his breakout race?

11 years later still aiming for the same power?
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone have a sense of how Lionel feels about his bike ride at Indian Wells? Was he pleased? Did he test any aero tweaks? Successful or unsuccessful? How was his power? Any insights would be appreciated.

THANKS!
Ray
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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Same,same but different..

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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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It would be interesting to see how coach breakdown his stroke and body position to him and see him work on specific drills to improve it.

Feels like the video is short on details and more of the same now or never superlatives.

Per the one interaction with his coach I didn’t think Lionels problem was needing to swim fast while fatigued but rather his form was just always a mess.

But I'm not well enough experienced to diagnose on that front. Telling him to swim more and just swim harder seems like a good way to increase fitness, but hopefully he's working on the real efficiency issues?
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Lurker4] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not even sure how much of his form is actually fixable. I'm no swim coach, but Lionel really seems to have naturally limited mobility/flexibility.

He swims the way he runs, except it doesn't really work in the water.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [toj] [ In reply to ]
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toj wrote:
Does anyone have a sense of how Lionel feels about his bike ride at Indian Wells? Was he pleased? Did he test any aero tweaks? Successful or unsuccessful? How was his power? Any insights would be appreciated.

THANKS!
Ray


I spoke with him (edit: for) a few minutes after the race - about little to do with the race - relaxed, smiling, seemed happy. Looking at pics online - he looked good and aero from the side - Marc might have some insight onto the front views with the knees and such - but as slow as his swimmer went - I would say 1:57 would be on the slow side for him - riding with all the age groupers around him. So...successful. Can't wait to see him on the race course again soon.

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
Last edited by: dfru: Dec 12, 23 19:09
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [christianlee] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah he looks like he's always doing the finger drag recovery drill.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Lurker4] [ In reply to ]
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You just need to swim fast when fatigued.

That’s a cheeky brilliant coach for sure.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Dec 13, 23 5:16
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
Same,same but different..

Not to jump in on his defense, but endurance sport training and youtube's insatiable thirst for content aren't a natural fit. 90% of training is doing the "same, same, but (a little) different". Swimming more and continuing to swim more doesn't fit easily into weekly videos.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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dfru wrote:
toj wrote:
Does anyone have a sense of how Lionel feels about his bike ride at Indian Wells? Was he pleased? Did he test any aero tweaks? Successful or unsuccessful? How was his power? Any insights would be appreciated.

THANKS!
Ray


I spoke with him (edit: for) a few minutes after the race - about little to do with the race - relaxed, smiling, seemed happy. Looking at pics online - he looked good and aero from the side - Marc might have some insight onto the front views with the knees and such - but as slow as his swimmer went - I would say 1:57 would be on the slow side for him - riding with all the age groupers around him. So...successful. Can't wait to see him on the race course again soon.

Lionel did a 2nd aero session the week before the race and solidified some of the changes he made from the first session.
During testing he rode a configuration but he decided not to ride it in the race because he felt he didn't have enough experience.
During the race he rode with a small aero measurement device and he saw some good aero numbers from the race
It's not a fast course, so I am not sure time is the right barometer of his aero progress.
BTW, it can take a few sessions before all aero gains found in test sessions "stick" in races.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
You just need to swim fast when fatigued.

That’s a cheeky brilliant coach for sure.


*nods head and checks box, "swim fast while fatigued"* Got it!
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Lurker4] [ In reply to ]
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Telling him to swim more and just swim harder seems like a good way to increase fitness, but hopefully he's working on the real efficiency issues?

The best definition is "technique under load." That's what you want to be training. Triathlon has this idea that you train technique and fitness separately. You don't. Your technique will only be as good as the fitness you've got to support. And in reality what you're training is your ability to focus your attention on your stroke regardless of the level of stress you are under.

I hope this helps.

Tim

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
dfru wrote:
toj wrote:
Does anyone have a sense of how Lionel feels about his bike ride at Indian Wells? Was he pleased? Did he test any aero tweaks? Successful or unsuccessful? How was his power? Any insights would be appreciated.

THANKS!
Ray


I spoke with him (edit: for) a few minutes after the race - about little to do with the race - relaxed, smiling, seemed happy. Looking at pics online - he looked good and aero from the side - Marc might have some insight onto the front views with the knees and such - but as slow as his swimmer went - I would say 1:57 would be on the slow side for him - riding with all the age groupers around him. So...successful. Can't wait to see him on the race course again soon.


Lionel did a 2nd aero session the week before the race and solidified some of the changes he made from the first session.
During testing he rode a configuration but he decided not to ride it in the race because he felt he didn't have enough experience.
During the race he rode with a small aero measurement device and he saw some good aero numbers from the race
It's not a fast course, so I am not sure time is the right barometer of his aero progress.
BTW, it can take a few sessions before all aero gains found in test sessions "stick" in races.

Thanks Marc! Good insight without really telling us much ;) but yeah - while I find the course pretty fast in spite of the road conditions - where Lionel was riding couldn't have been that great for real testing of a pro race situation - that was more my point.

I was just glad to see the man and it was great to have a little chat for sure! Keep up the good work - can't wait to see what he finally pulls out of the bag in, presumably, Oceanside!

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
marcag wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Lionel Sanders...greatest Canadian TTer of all time, defeated Jens Voigt + Eddy Merckx + Francesco Moser + Jacques Anquetil over the hour with a 51.304 distance measurement!!! (correction, Moser went 51.840 in 94 defeating his own 1984 51.151....the latter Lionel beat)

Thank you Lionel...triathletes can now hold their heads high in the presence of roadies from now to the end of time in spite of not being able to hold a straight line !!!

Now we can carry on with Lionel theo social media content king, which we may interchangeably swap with Lionel the 2xIronman worlds runner up.


think he could hold off Derek Gee ?

there is a reason roadies don't try it and this record will hold


As it stands Lionel is faster than all Canadian roadies ever over the hour and beaten many TdF, Giro, and World champion cyclists (albeit on different kit). So it is up to Derek Gee to take down the 2xIronman Worlds runner up now. Until then, he is holding the 51.304 mark !!!

Lol

His mark is barely better than Vittoria Bussi's performance of 50 kph and miles away from Ganna's performance closer to 57 kph. So he can barely beat women TTers, and you folks continue to wet dream that think he can beat the best male road cyclists in the world.

Derek Gee would smoke Sanders any day of the week.

There is very little motivation for many cyclists to go after the hour record. It is a huge investment for the reward. Hence why WvA or Remco will never go after it despite being able to beat Ganna on the road.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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https://velo.outsideonline.com/...nas-uci-hour-record/


I’m going to upset all of Belgium but I struggle to see anyone right now that can break it. The old track craft has something to do with it,' Dowsett tells VeloNews.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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MrTri123 wrote:
https://velo.outsideonline.com/...nas-uci-hour-record/


I’m going to upset all of Belgium but I struggle to see anyone right now that can break it. The old track craft has something to do with it,' Dowsett tells VeloNews.

I think he is right.

Having said that, Ganna will break his own record again and go 57.2-57.5 kph. When he got it, his immediate results before the effort were 7th at Worlds TT, and 4th and 5th at the Vuelta time trials. So it can be argued that he was not in the shape of his life. So I am betting he will go even faster if he is in 2023 shape.

I think it's funny here in ST, a male rider bikes 51 kph and it triggers dozens of wet dreams and assumptions of cycling grandeur. On the other hand, an amateur female cyclist (Bussi is not a professional rider) bikes 50 kph and no one cares.

I am not judging by the way, male Youtubers wearing speedos is not my thing but different strokes for different folks I guess ;-)
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Engner66 wrote:
MrTri123 wrote:
https://velo.outsideonline.com/...nas-uci-hour-record/


I’m going to upset all of Belgium but I struggle to see anyone right now that can break it. The old track craft has something to do with it,' Dowsett tells VeloNews.


I think he is right.

Having said that, Ganna will break his own record again and go 57.2-57.5 kph. When he got it, his immediate results before the effort were 7th at Worlds TT, and 4th and 5th at the Vuelta time trials. So it can be argued that he was not in the shape of his life. So I am betting he will go even faster if he is in 2023 shape.

I think it's funny here in ST, a male rider bikes 51 kph and it triggers dozens of wet dreams and assumptions of cycling grandeur. On the other hand, an amateur female cyclist (Bussi is not a professional rider) bikes 50 kph and no one cares.

I am not judging by the way, male Youtubers wearing speedos is not my thing but different strokes for different folks I guess ;-)

Why do you even click this thread if you don't want to see dudes in speedos? lol jk of course.

So did Lionel wear the POC helmet? Any pics? Power #'s? We need some closure to Indian Wells.
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