While that’s what I am saying coaching is not a fixed prescription, so what works for a Trevor foley will not work for a beginner that can’t swim a 100 m interval yet or run a sub 7 min km.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

I am not sure if you saying I don’t listen to enough podcasts is a win for me or a lose depending if I do listen to a lot or a don’t.

I am not using subjective experiences here just objective looks and those that have been around Lionel haven’t really done that great like you meant! especially for the time put in vs the return.
Didn’t Ari have to move back with his parents and go into depression ?! And Colin , while !?!?

It’s a fun topic , like why does mikal not go much love this year rvb is killing it out there and Lionel fell off ( his words) . Sometimes you don’t know what you have till it’s gone too.

Also Dan larang coaches Jan. Certain podcasts talk about it non stop haha, certain.

Jan has two big wins in 4 years kona 2019 , pto 2023 USA. He was hurt a lot which can be sometime too much training load and over reaching at the direction of a coach or in spite of the coach ??? It’s a mixed bag.

Hasn’t Lionel kind of been better ??? Since 2019 then Jan ? 2022 Utah worlds he was only beaten but a top Kristen and Jan beat Kristen on one of his bad days.

also I will try to listen to more podcasts.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

AG "beginners" is likely the easiest to coach because just simple structure of basic swim bike and run workouts gets them 80% of the way there. Building a swim program to get TF to the next level.....yeah that's going to show your coaching chops.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Really I had a 50 year women yesterday 3 years into triathlon 3 different swim clubs still cant do 50 m without stopping.

Seems like she should be doing well after 3 years but they just leave the sport, they think it’s too hard. After 60 min she told me she want her husband to come get training too as she improved more in 60 minutes then 3 years with 3 other coaches and 3 swim clubs. And he learned to hate swimming due to lack of improvement.

Maybe triathlon is hard because shitty coaching .

I just mentioned to a client that has a big social media follow ( regular people) how people think she trains all day because she went from 260 lbs to 220 lbs to 160 lbs which was couldn’t run to , 5 km in 39 min to 5 km in 23 minutes . Kona qualified in 2 years, didn’t take it.

People think she trains 30-40 hours a week on top of here full time stressful job.

She does 75min -2 hours a day avg but doctors at her work think she is doing too much, they think she is doing 4-8 hours a day to get these results ?!?!? They also think a guess a 260 lbs person is better health than a 160 person that has enough energy to train after a work shift, or they’re just a bit jealous.

It goes both way at the beginning level if they catch on natural or need better coaching etc .

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

If only Dan was coaching other athletes, then maybe we could evaluate him better!

Yeah this one made me smile, as well. I’ve only been following triathlon since 2016 or thereabouts and even I managed to take note of the name of the elite coach of the Canadian who finished second in Kona in 2017 😂

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

OMG seriously. The ignorance is mind blowing. Dan Lorang has probably coached more IMWC winning athletes (men and women) in the last 20 years than any other coach.

One of the big hurdles for people coming from sedentary lifestyles is the normalization of a training (or even just healthy) lifestyle. Even 1 hour/day seems like a "freakish" amount of training to the average American. Not getting fast food for lunch, not drinking everyday, not watching Netflix as a default after-work activity. Be it jealousy, ignorance, self-assuredness, or anything else, there's a very real peer-pressure on people to stay sedentary.

I'm not sure when it happened, but it seems that currently there is very little down-the-middle active for fun, healthy enough, not overboard either way lifestyle. People are either 100% sedentary, putting on 10lbs every year, exercising from Jan 01 to Jan 15, or completely gung-ho, sport-aiming, gains maximizing, no-days-off athletes. It's rare to see an American adult who does any sort of exercise exclusively for fun.

It made me smile being lectured at a recent family union (which coincidentally lined up with a nearby marathon, so I decided last minute buy a transfer bib and work into the schedule and go for broke on a PR -- you can guess how that ended) by a brother-in-law, who has multiple sedentary health issues and emergency surgeries under his expanding belt lecture me from the coach as I hobbled around the house the next day hearing that "running is bad for your knees".

There definitely is a resentment & jealousy factor at play to a small degree, but I think a lot of it is just the critical nature everyone has. We can't help but critique everything around us.

this is something i think that western europe does better. a lot of people all across the continent are 'active' but not 'athletes,' because they walk to the store, walk to the train station/bus stop, bike to school, etc. it's amazing how many people in holland ride their bikes 6 days a week, 40 weeks a year, and wouldn't ever call themselves 'cyclists.'

i'll also say that when i lived in australia, my smoking, drinking, non-athlete room-mates still thought that a fun thing to do on a sunny weekend was to go to the park and kick a ball around. just activity for fun's sake. that's increasingly foreign in north america, i think.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I agree. I walked about 5-15k a day in Europe just getting around depending on what I was doing. I walk about 1-2k a day in the USA. Walking to the grocery store, train, bus, up and down 4 flights of stairs to your apartment, etc. is a huge lifestyle difference that can't be overestimated.

It was the statement of DTD only coming into the view as an elite coach due to Skye's podcast that my comment was really about. It just kind of made everyone else on this thread wonder how the actual F you could come to that conclusion. He's coached a ton of extremely successful athletes, much more successful than Skye and for many years. Listen to whatever you want to obviously - but there's a ton of podcasts with DTD on them, and he's always been considered an elite coach that I can see.

Mikal fell completely silent on SM after Collin (his athlete) and there's been no self promotion - his athletes in IW killed it long course too. He's very good. Just doesn't self promote. And not every athlete works with every coach.

I actually had a private message conversation with a pretty well known coach, when Jan got his stress fracture in 2018, regarding where the blame was there - and could be training load, nutrition, weakness - combination of all of these things? And a few of Dan's athletes have had injuries with him honestly. So, some is coach, probably most is athlete (communicating where things are at - honesty about sleep and recovery - listening to their body etc).

Arguing Lionel been better than Jan? haha - I'm the biggest Lionel fan in the world...but you can't go that lol.

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

That was the point I was making ? No one talks about his success with Lionel or any other athlete but in the last two weeks due to the skye podcasts he has been looked at more ?? like people forget x coach is good but his athletes / team may not have the goes right now. Doesn’t mean they aren’t a good coach right ?

Never heard in a social media Lionel sanders once coached by David to second in kona.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Can't tell if you're agreeing with me or if my sarcastic post went way over your head.

LOL. I absolutely got the sarcasm and agree.

The argument that Dan Lorang's coaching results are somehow questionable because Frodeno was injured for a while (at 40yrs old no less), is so ill-conceived that it boggles the mind.

.
Let me refresh your memory..


https://www.youtube.com/...?si=dtQz_3dXSi9LQJ8m

You are not going to rich roll me , I am no sucker!!!

Utah worlds 2022 for 2021 IM worlds was one of the most talented competitions in the last 2 years. He was second place. Jans best since 2019 is Ibiza and Milwaukee. which I know Jan beat Lionel but Lionel never took Milwaukee proper like he did UTAH.

• 1. Kristian Blummenfelt (NOR) – 7:49:16 ( at the time the greatest 500 day triathlon dominance in history)
• 2. Lionel Sanders (CAN) – 7:54:03 ( best performance )
• 3. Braden Currie (NZL) – 7:54:19 ( star)
• 4. Chris Leiferman (USA) – 7:57:51 ( he's good)
• 5. Florian Angert (GER) – 7:59:35 ( he's good)
• 6. Leon Chevalier (FRA) – 8:01:41( this guy is very good)
• 7. Daniel Baekkegard (DEN) – 8:02:06 ( yup he is legit)
• 8. Sam Laidlow (FRA) – 8:02:56 ( well we saw the next 16 months after)
• 9. David McNamee (GBR) – 8:04:36 ( top 3 kona guy )
• 10. Ben Hoffman (USA) – 8:06:38 ( top 3 kona guy)
• 11. Kyle Smith (NZL) – 8:08:08 ( jans training partner I think at the time)
• 12. Matt Trautman (RSA) – 8:12:54
• 13. Matt Hanson (USA) – 8:13:48 ( hes good)
• 14. Sebastian Kienle (GER) – 8:14:34
• 15. Sam Long (USA) – 8:16:34

if you look at Kona the guys right behind Jan , sebi , ben where 11 min behind Jan but in 2022 20 min behind Lionel , which is hard because they are older I know but it's all we have.


My point is Lionel was on pace to go places he never had at ironman distance, same as 2018 and then he changes course??? ? Why he called off long course post post kona ????

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Jan destroyed Lionel in the Tri battle..(which is the video I linked)

Lionel had the fastest Ironman time in the world in 2016 then he went on to have his best year ever in 2017 (he says this himself) Since 2017 he has had one stand out performance and that was in IMWC St George when he came 2nd (Collins Cup novelty race and Challenge Champ 2018 noted). He has not won any Iron distance since 2017 and his wins per year total has been minimal compared to 2016-18. These are that stat's but what amazes me is that every time anyone talks of Lionel they immediately go back to his two 2nd places at the IMWC.

The thing is,there have been plenty of guys who have also come 2nd at World's but nobody talks about them in the same way. Hell,Pete Jacobs came 2nd and then went one better the following year but it is like, Pete who? Nobody talks about the entire podium at last years 70.3 Worlds. It is like that race never happened.

Of course.pointing out all of this makes me "A Hater" in the eyes of fans here but none of what I point out is false and Lionel says exactly the same thing. He went off the rails again and again and again and self destructed which is sad as he had the potential to be amazing. Luckily for him he has his "story" and his social media presence which entertains everyone and keeps him relevant because there are a bunch of guys racing who have had consistently better results overall in the last few years who get totally overlooked. If Lionel had done what Sam Long did a couple of days ago there would be dancing in the streets but sadly,only one reply to the IM70.3 Pucon thread and a lot of that is because many people do not follow the sport,they follow Lionel.(Kevin MacKinnon should be on Lionel's payroll)
IM 70.3 Pucon: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

Not disagreeing with you that LS was the best of the rest that day, but realistically, Blu was in a league of his own. I reckon Chevalier and Baekegard are getting in the big leagues, but not that day. Blu won the race, but we will never know how much he had left in the tank if someone would have been able to put him under pressure.

There was an article in Triathlon Mag. Canada about the greatest coaches. DTD made the cut, probably no coincidence, but his relationship with LS was never mentioned. I still think that his best IM performance was Kona 2017.

Only comment about coaches is that in this sport, there isn't a lot of transparency about who coaches who. There are a ton of pros that keep that "confidential".

DTD had never said one negative thing about Lionel on here...but Hutch who tried to control his life came on here and blasted Lionel. Lionel just said it was over, but he never even named who he was publicly.

Contrasting that with running, because it is so squad centric, people seem to know who coaches who. But even those that aren't in squad environments that train alone, at the top end you can easily google who someone's coach is. I think Mikal is the most publicly known coach of Lionel's but that was after the content machine was rolling. When DTD coached Lionel in 2016 Lionel wasn't a "platform" by himself.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Tri battle ??? That’s one not a real race they got drafts and handled bottles at full speed etc. second Jan had prepared for it and Lionel just showed up for it ??? So you’re saying we only compare great day??

I did write since 2019 ??? Not talking about top Jan.

Also Ironman is lots of lucky timing like we know 2019 a healthy Lange and we are saying he is the goat with three in a row and beating Jan???

Pete jacobs has enter the Lionel thread!! We are running out of content.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

replying to the thread:

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

We all like triathlon we just subjectively call one day greater than another based on self awareness mixed with some nostalgia. We like styles or people, mentally, race strategy and sometimes confidence.

I rarely pick Lionel to be in a top 5 , I always pick Jan. I do that because Jan makes the air day will be his best effort and Lionel you never know he usually does all his best effort leading up the race not at the race.

But since 2019 some of the greats of 2012-2019 have not been so great , time to face that music , Jan , Gomez and Ali , have not been very good the last 4 years vs rvb, Lange, Magnus, Kristen, Lionel , etc . Yet some of these people still fear them or think they aren’t better than them. And a lot of nostalgia thinks they are still better.

It’s ok to disagree you don’t hurt my feeling and you may present a good counter point , but Pete jacobs is never a counter point , haha.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Who is Kristen?

Who me you phone autocorrects to for blummenfield , haha just kidding blummenfeld .

This is a you problem, because you can’t understand who, based off Kristen , and the fact you take to point out spelling errors.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter