Applause all the way around Brooks. Thanks for this.

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

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You get in trouble for that kind of talk around here...

*On ST you are expected to embellish all Lionel results and training videos.
*You are to ignore all the winners of the 200+ Ironman distance races in the 6+ years since Lionel last won an Ironman distance event.(Especially if those races were not in Canada or the USA)
*You are to only make passing references to the actual winners of all World Championships this decade and in some cases ignore/forget about them almost completely.
*You will comply! Resistance is futile!

Fair enough. Will continue to monitor the situation :) //

As will I, and many of his fans and haters here...And come on all you haters, give the guy a chance. He did an about face on Ironmans when the offered up 7 million bucks for a series. And that series is not going to be a B series either, but one that has guys like him who are just a wee bit off of shorter races, all going all in for the longer distance. The 3 series happening at the same time is really going to force folks into a particular box, and those that choose Ironman are not going to play around with under 3 hour races anymore. I expect the competition there to be quite fierce.


And of course you can say so and so isn't there, but I can guarantee if Blu showed up to Ironman Texas, he would get his ass handed to him. You know why, because he has to specialize too for the type of race he is gunning for. And that training will not get him to the top of an Ironman these days with so much on the line. Now give him 6 or 7 weeks to get ready, then different story. But each race from the 50 minute one to the 8 hour ones in the 3 series, are all going to be super competitive and have most of the best of the best. The few great crossover athletes will have to make hard choices, but it wont lessen the other races they dont do. I expect the Ironman series to be quite competitive this year, and looking forward to how Lionel will navigate it all with his new found weapons...

The limit was not one of Sanders choosing: there was no 'avoiding'. Because his 2023 season was lacklustre he never entered the ranked top 20 and consequently wasn't offered a contract, neither by qualification nor by 'hot shot' nomination (4 contracts: Brownlee, Gomez, van Riel and Bogen).
He was unlucky with that doubtful notional centreline call at Lahti. If the rest of the race had gone well (to potential) he'd have scored 90 and slipped into the top 17, above McNamee (who was the last AQ).
So his decision to race Ironman is driven by exclusion from T100 and the attraction of the IM Series: good luck to him.

Nope. The decision was his.

Yeah, he wisely realized he wasn’t going to be consistently competitive at the 100k distance. It’ll be interesting if T100 offers him a wildcard to Miami, it’s 7 weeks before IM Texas.

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Let food be thy medicine...

That's the right call from him. 2k swim is just too long, bike and run are not long enough to catch up for someone like him.

Hope not. Between the crash and sickness he caught coming home, his season was a constant trying to catch back up with his training.

He’ll absolutely be offered a start, but I don’t think he’ll accept it.

So I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe what you're saying. But then I remember he's swimming neck and neck with Trevor Foley here. At this point I'd bet very marginal gains for Lionel and big gains for Foley to jump up to Sanders level.

It's funny. When I saw TF in that video my 1st reaction:

Wow TF is doing what LS should have done at that point in his *youngish* tri career. (I get why he didn't at the time within the sport's development)

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Ironman have "offered up $7M for a series"? Or do you mean PTO, @monty?
"those that choose Ironman are not going to play around with under 3 hour races anymore"
You will find that this take is not the case. About half of the T100 men "playing around with 3 hour races" will race IM this season. And 'yes' the competition will be fierce, in the IM Series IMs, particularly Texas.
I expect nearly all the T100 contracted male athletes to race Miami (except maybe van Riel). Any athlete choosing not to has now told PTO so they'll be offering the odd wildcard this week. @marcag has suggested that Sanders was offered a full contract (as a 'hot shot') and turned it down: they went for current and ex-world champions (and a potential one (van Riel)) instead.

If they offer a wildcard to Sanders his presence/that storyline risks distracting from the "season long narrative" the PTO want to initiate, so I doubt they will.

he was offered a hotshot contract and pto would have been silly not to.

When Lionel posted his video on having to choose, and saying he had not yet decided, PTO was the first comment on youtube :

"Regardless what you choose, we’ll never stop being Lionel fans. Keep doing great things for this incredible sport"

Not exactly the comments of someone who didn't offer a contract.

Just wanted to mention in the most recent video, he is wearing the new Form goggles.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Whether he was offered or not offered a spot, no way he was going to go all in on the PTO. He's MOP at that style of race and this "late" in his career he likely understands he only has so many chances left. To waste them having to race to a "contract" (we now know they are more appareance fees per race) with the tactics that are being race would have been stupid. Now maybe he would have done it truly if he was "done" with the sport and more as a last year "money grab", but he was not going to race PTO. Anyone within the sport knew that decision was pto vs IM was an easy one.

Especially with the breakdown of the prize money for races. If you aren't top 3 in PTO you are basically only going to make money off the "contract" (which is good for sure) but then it disrupts your ability to basically pick the big boy races outside of that series if you then need the money from the "contract" (again it's more of an appearance fee paid only when you show up). So the "contract" hook made no sense for a MOP athlete like LS.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Call me biased, but I think Lionel could give Sam a good run for his money.

A) Which Sam are you referring too?

B) Which series are you talking about giving Sam a run for his money?


LS is at best MOP at PTO and with how the prize structure is even WAAAAY less than years past (1st = $25k now?), if you are MOP in PTO you are basically only going to make money from your "contract" (and the ability to be end of season ranking bonuses due to racing PTO "stacked" points races). Then to find out the contract is an appearance fee setup, you then have to go all in on the PTO races to get the full salary. Thus you then limit your other opportunities at worse with world traveling training disruption even if you "train through" an PTO event.

So it was a no brainer LS was not going to race PTO. Cool to confirm that he was "offered" but PTO was not going to be LS's jam. Or if his "offer" was 1-2x "wildcard", cool....That makes sense but it would have been dumb on LS's part to go all in on the series when he has but a few years left to win the races he *actually* wants to win. Again if you are "retiring" and want to take said contract as sorta an easy way to get 1 last pay check for a year and have a "retirement tour"- hell yeah do that. But LS isn't at *that* point just yet.

Each athlete will have their own needs / reasons why they make a certain decision. I think the gurantee of a 6 figure salary is hugely important for some athletes, but not necessarily for an athlete like LS who's years are limited left. A guy like Sam Long has 10 more years in the sport at a high level, LS probaly less than half of that. So a guy like Sam Long can race this "intensity" and be ok MOP as it helps him "long term" while LS finishing MOP at PTO for an entire year is basically "wasting" valuable time that he can be used to race more important goals. Again LS isn't going to be racing for podiums at PTO, so if you are only MOP, then you truly have to ask yourself- is the money so good that it offsets any chance of racing more important goals? The PTO money doesn't seem to be all that great considering you must show up to each race in order to get the money (which makes sense if you are PTO- you aren't going to offer $100k contracts and they race 1 PTO race).

ETA: It kinda reminds me of a podcast I listen to. Bill Simmons. He was talking about now that he lives in LA while his dad lives in Boston (and he's in his 80's I believe). He and his co-host were once talking about "you know, now living on the west coast, I'm literally only going to see my father X number of times now"....It's a rather sobering reality when you realize you have a limited time to your career at a high level.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Long at PTO

Yes but that's sorta proves my point of why LS wouldn't go PTO. The podium at each race consists of what 40% of the race prize structure ($53k of $125k, not counting the end of year bonuses). Thus anything outside of top 5 is basically going on the premise of the "contract" being your primary income driver. So then it becomes in order to make 6 figures you need to go "all in" on the contract which then "disrupts" any other races. Sure you can "train through" an PTO event, but your also adding travel fatigue so it's not like you can just "train through" PTO events and secretly go all in on IM and then think your going to get the best of both worlds. All that traveling demands to get the full contract- there's a reason why PTO made the "contract" essentially an appearance fee, and not an 1 time up front payment to athletes. PTO aint dumb (and neither is LS- which is why PTO was never going to be the path he chose).

ETA: I would have to think the PTO understood this prior to "offering" LS. Like no duh you'd offer him the contract, and use his tri celebrity, but even they had to know that the "offer" he would need to make it work for him would have to so great that a) PTO was not going to offer that b) knew LS would likely turn down the "not great" contract offer they would offer him.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

In your opinion, why would San take it ?

Because he's 28 years old, has 10 years of racing left and can get 6 figures racing around the world while still in the "development" phase of his career. He's in the exact opposite position of LS.

LS is in win "now" mode. He can't afford to waste any races left in his career. Sam Long can afford to improve his speed by racing the T100 series and it affording him the ability to pay for his kids diapers, basically stress free.

That's why I said the contract that LS needed PTO to offer for him to go all in for the PTO was not an offer the PTO was going to make. He being MOP was not going to be a very good return on the investment imo for PTO.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Also LS has stated several times he does not like to travel especially alone. He can do Ironman series and longest trip will be to Hawaii.

You're biassed with a judgement not based on 2023 form, unless you use "could" in the context of a possibility (on the same start).
https://stats.protriathletes.org/...-long/lionel-sanders
If the top 10 were getting $100k as the 'race 6 races' contract, the interviews given suggest the base contract was worth less for the 'top shots' in the #17-#20 slots: let's say $50k: ~$8k per race 'appearance' plus $2k+ for places #11-#20 plus $20k for 15th at the end of the year (a reasonable aspiration for Sanders): total remuneration = $85k.
How much will he win if he races as last year (about $25k), plus three competitive IMs?
But a contract with $85k walking through, plus IM winnings? Partner bonus criteria a factor?
First Sanders'll need to get a Kona slot which will not be easy in Texas but should be doable in IMLP (3MPRO and several will already be KQ).

Which is interesting because they offered "hot shots" sports to Brownlee and Gomez who are basically in the same place if not worse off because they've both been injured a ton and have not proven to be durable. Name recognition, which Sanders would give them as well.

So an interesting dichotomy. And yes obviously Brownlee is different as a Gold Medalist. And Gomez being a a 5x WTS Series winnter. But they both need to win and I"m not sure they'll do that in T100. Also, they're not hot shots either. So weird category to call it when you have guys on the brink of retirement taking the slot.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.