I'll disagree because both Gomez and AB have "front pack" ability in the sport to atleast be disruptors at worse and potential to be there in the end at best more often than a guy like LS. So while they may end up falling off by the end of the race, they'll have much more likelyhood to have an actual impact on the race + telecast than a guy with LS's specific ability.

ETA: Sure they want to win and both need to win to cement the "GOAT" or whatever proclaimation people want to make about them. But those 2 atleast have an ability to put themselves in a position to be at the front of the races earlier than what LS has. Thus that athlete can be more easily talked about (and shown on the coverage) than a guy MOP having to "race from the back". It's the old adage, some win the race, and some "make" the race. AB certainly has the ability to basically decide the race by his tactics, even if he doesn't actually benefit in the end by said tactics.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

In the same way people may bemoan LS, Gomez and Brownlee have never threatened in a World Championship Ironman.

They haven't been durable enough to finish a season. So for me I question why they were picked versus actual "hot shots" who were much younger that are "up and coming". For me they fit the purpose LS would, to drive eye balls via name recognition. But if they do change the dynamic that will make for a fun broadcast product. So we'll see. I'd rather your version than mine tbf.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I think they were picked because of their name recognition. But again they also front pack ability so PTO can market the shit out of that for 70% of the telecast. It won't then really matter if they fail on the run, them being at the front can be as beneficial as race "instigators". It's the old quote from Prefontaine's coach from the '72 Olympics. "He didn't win the race, but he made the race by running the last mile in 4:06" (the 1st nearly 2 miles was run at a pedestrain pace). AB may never win another big race, but you know by his mere presence it's going to impact the tactics.

And are they signed on as full time athletes or only if they need to fill race rosters?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I think for Sam Long it was probably a close call, but his two 5th places last year and very close to podiums, has him thinking he can be there to collect some of the big money. He is one of the few guys that could also have tripped on over to the Ironman series and made as much if not more too. But the start money and the much easier recovery from the T100 series, probably is what tipped the scales..

What I love most about this thread lately, is the certainty statement made by someone about Lionel not getting an invite, and the corresponding dismantling of that certainty by someone who actually knows what happened. I'm not in the know of this one, could have been, but am not surprised that the T100 would have courted Lionel, and no doubt as a fill in too. I know most write him off for that paticualr distance, but I still feel on a good day he can get competitive for that 5th spot. But do agree a podium is out of the question anymore, especially with the crew they have assembled.

In a weird way, this Ironman series is tailored made for him. At this time in his life and career, I can't think of a more accommodating set up for him to excel, and to make more money than he ever has. So ball is in his court, lets just hope Trevor has made big strides in his swimming program!!! (-;

My econ 101 class- the only thing I learned from it.


The value you think you are, and the value others think you are are almost NEVER the same.


That to me is LS and T100. So I would think it was a no brainer the 2 sides met/discussed, and likely will still considering PTO has 3 races in America. Which that in of itself is crazy to me; never would have guessed US would lead for races in the new PTO series. I don't know if that's good or bad for the success (or failure) of the PTO brand.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

The value you think you are, and the value others think you are are almost NEVER the same.//

I agree, Lionel often undervalues himself. In fact he almost never talks about contracts or money at all, hope his agent has more acumen in that dept. And in reality it is not what you think, or what others think, it is what someone will "Actually" pay. That is your true worth regardless of what you or others think...


Most likely the schedule for the T100 was just an organic scheduling, and not such a pre planned one. Because it was done so late as these things go, probably more a thing of who can we partner with at this late date. But 3 races in the US is fine, an awful lot of pros these days locate here for some period of time for training camps, and some actually move here. I mean someone is always going to be inconvenienced to the travel schedules, this one might end up being the least impactful in the grand scheme of things...

To me the biggest devaluation of LS is that you can't market a non front pack athlete (who also has yet to podium at your events) during races as easily as you can someone at the front (AB type). As George would say, "LS you have no hand" in this discussion imo.

I guess you could market LS as the David vs Goliath / Charlie Brown loveable loser type, but for the most part within sports programming- fans watch for the sport of it, not to be entertained by side stories filling the telecast (which is the angle you need to market a MOP athlete).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

You have some poor assumptions about marketing and how you market individuals. Lionel is one of the most marketable people in triathlon otherwise he wouldn't keep the sponsors he has and gaining other big ones.

If you think Brownlee and Gomez Noya are marketable, but he isn't it shows only your point of view. I look at both of them as not people I'd give "hot shot" contracts to. Because they aren't hot shots. I don't know where Lionel was in the pecking order, but if those two got offers so would he. If anything he is even more marketable, he has one of the largest platforms in triathlon. To the point where has has his own thread on slowtwitch with 758 posts and numerous other threads. Brownlee and Gomez don't got that.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

You have poor reading comprehension because I've said over and over LS is a tri celebrity and owns the tri market. But that the PTO needs waaaaaay more than a tri market number to make it. Thus when you are wanting to create an "pro sport", you market the racing/sport not necessarily the "individuals" because for the most part, the biggest marketability of your sport...is you guessed it....the sport.

So when your a MOP athlete, you are going to be less marketable in the moment of your sport when you are trying to gain viewers with your product; in addition to all the backstory media said sport does to self promote it's sport.

Your proving my point that LS owns the tri marke (I've said that 100 times in this very thread). That's small potatoes for the numbers that PTO needs to pull in order to make it long term.

I'm 100% saying AB front pack type of athlete will have much much more of an impact on the broadcast and race than a MOP LS athlete (who by default will already get well less coverage).

I'm talking about the actual race coverage. I'm not talking about the before and after media buzz that all sports do. I'm talking about the actual Broadcast product that is the biggest hook to gaining an audience than the before/after social media hype. Your #1 marketability is going to be the product you put in front of the general public. In that manner, LS is going to be much more of an afterthought at the T100 distance than an key attribute.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Huh? You said he was less marketable than they are. Which is not true. He has a significantly better story to tell than they do. That's what makes him. Brownlee is a Gold Medalist, so that is huge. Gomez 5x WTS Champion. But they're still. Triathlon Names and there to drive interest from triathlon fans. You hopefully that they will also contribute to race dynamics, they could, but so could Lionel right now.

However, you could get better contributors to race dynamics whom are much younger than will contribute to the format. But that's about nameless athletes and having a great race product, but then you went into the marketability of individual. If you want the marketability of the individual then you want LS every time there is a race in 2024.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I'm talking about the marketablity of the actual broadcast product. How you hook someone watching for the 1st time. Your not going to get them based on backstories of the athletes. You are going to get them hooked by highlighting the fast paced racing that is happening on screen. You can market the shit out of the athletes before and after etc, but when the lights come your basically going to be showcasing the event w/ occassional "backstory" filler content. But even that filler content is going to be so abbreviated that your not going to "deep dive" into LS's story to get people more hooked on the "underdog".

So no I don't think LS is this marketable darling for the actual PTO product broadcasts, especially if he's MOP at best. The "underdog" needs to have a real chance at a win occassional to give people hope that it's cool to root for someone. Not just finish 8th every race. Remember this is about marketing to the masses- so to the masses LS who's in 17th out of the swim is not even a care/thought in the PTO. They will probaly wonder why the F they are showing the 2nd to last out of the water when the "race" is already up the road.

Almost every sport that has "leaders" on the road vs "pack" said leaders get 85% or more of the coverage. So when your telling me your most marketable athlete is a MOP type of athlete and will only be at the front of the field the final 1/3rd of your race product....I don't think that's very successful marketing plan.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Then don't talk about his individual marketability or theirs.

They are two old right at retirement athletes that only bring their name to the race. Want someone who can do something interesting to the dynamics? Offer Trevor Foley a "hot shot" contract.

I hope I'm wrong because I want the race to be good. But I also said they wouldn't threaten at Kona when many of their sycophants said they'd win. But for a company that thinks it knows how to market the sport better they're struggling.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Except they also bring front pack racing ability (AB atleast does, we haven't seen Gomez at this distance in what 5+ years now?). So when you tell me you want TF to be added, cool. We just have a whole different take on interesting tactics and how that plays out at that world class type of level. This isn't B/C level 70.3's.....poor swim is going to be really hard to overcome unless you truly can showcase a world class run (TF has yet to do that on the big boy stage as of yet...but of course he's still very much in his "developing" stages....no real need to throw him to the wolves in that format imo).


You want a wild card- go get Vincent Luis or Wilde....that's how you want to get for marketing/racing purposes.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

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I know this may come as a shock but Slowtwitch isn't the epicenter of triathlon in the world. Lionel may be the be all and end all of triathlon here but both Brownlee and Gomez have much more credibility among the power brokers of the sport where all this matters. Ironman results are not held in the same regard in Europe as they are in the USA and the Brownlees and Gomez are right up there at the top of the pack,a pack which does not include Lionel.

Picking these two guys is a fair tribute to two amazing careers.

On resume? Yes. Incredible athletes. But both are old and have been pretty injured the past few years. If this was 5 years ago I'd say "yeah, AB will go into the hurt locker, hopefully he comes out".

But if the "power brokers" are so dumb that they don't rate LS to be on a start list they're the reason why this sport is small.

🤷‍♂️

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Actually - you are correct that it's a fair tribute - but neither has done much of anything at a world class level since 2018. If we are honest. I would LOVE for both of them to win or at least show in a race but I think that's unrealistic at this point. And Ali and Lionel are about the same age. I have the utmost respect for both Javi and Ali. But they aren't really that marketable in the SM world and I would think that Lionel is actually better known by any triathlete that started the sport in the last 5-7 years. Is that the right thing, probably not. Is it true - probably.

I think Lionel should be doing the pro series. Full stop. Actually think that the PTO could've gone with two other hot shots and Ali and Javi be the first wildcards if they are healthy honestly. This to me makes more sense. Let them affect races when they are healthy but don't push the fact that they both struggle to get to start lines.

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

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I think Lionel should have done the PTO series for the same reason that Kanute is doing it and that is to get faster racing the best triathletes in the world at distances that will not trash him so he can go into Kona fresher,expecting to go Sub 7:30 for the win.

Yes. But also - he has to qualify and that would throw a wrench into it. So...you have to get fit enough for a qualifying IM anyways and then race PTO? I actually like the idea of the IM Pro series - he has proved to do multiple IMs well in a year - a little more spaced out and he could be golden. Plus, confidence is everything and success at the IMPS is much more likely in my opinion...

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Alleluia! Also the PTO are wanting to reach beyond the triathlon community, and Gomez and especially Brownlee are going to be more successful at that than Lionel Sanders and others. It's only a bonus that they will actually race from the front (and therefore be visible on the broadcasts) and are even a hot shot (there you go) to win one of these this year if all goes well for them.

I'm not saying this trying to be a dick at all...but how exactly are Ali and Javier going to be more successful at this? Brownlee is more famous in Britain, but both of them are well beyond their best LC performances and honestly, the world in 2018 is far more concerned with content and social media presence than great resumes. The most famous LC triathletes in the world in my estimation? Frodeno, Sanders and Lucy. It's hard to put Brownlee and Gomez even close to this because, they just aren't visible on SM. Brownlee a bit more, but Gomez not at all.

Trust me, I know everything that both men mean to the sport. But they aren't going to bring more eyeballs to the T100 Tour than LS or Lucy would. Just my opinion.

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Brownlee is a recognised public figure in the UK, well beyond the triathlon microcosm.

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Yep,Slowtwitch can be very insular sometimes.

Of the four athletes represented on the posters at the launch of the T-100 series,two were there to represent the PTO athletes.You could not ask for two better representatives to impress the corporate sports world. Everyone in the sport who needed to be there,was there.

How do you draw in new viewers in todays market? Is it SM? Is it the race content? What will get people to tune in and draw numbers for the PTO to allow this to stay long term. We aren’t talking about winning the tri market. We are talking about winning over the non tri fan.


LS may draw SM numbers but what about race day tune in numbers? That’s going to be your biggest opportunity to get viewers right? So what “hook” would you use to showcase LS when you know he’s a) not podium potential at this level b) his tactics showcase an inability to ever be at the front.

So you actively have to create LS content on race day and I just don’t know how they go about doing that. Do they cater to his backstory of his “lifestyle” choices before turning into a world class athlete to be the hook to get people to care? It’s just really hard imo to go all in on an athlete who’s not going to do all that well in said series and thus will be more of a manufactured star. “Why are we showing the guy in 14th place right now for”?

Guys at the front like AB can fall apart on the run and that’s drama. But by being already at front nothing really artificial has to be employed. Just put eyes on him doing his “racing with his hair on fire” strategy he always does. That’s easy content to showcase. Whether he wins or not is then irrelevant. So then for 2 hours you have the "Olympic champion leading or top 3 the last 2 hours" angle. With LS you have nothing to hook the viewer with until he fixes his swim (which is doubtful to fix to the level he needs in order to be successful at this racing distance).

But LS you have to specifically want to showcase him for the 1st 2.5 hours of the telecast as he’s almost assuredly going to be stuck in basic no man’s land. That’s not all that riveting of content on the actual telecast. A potential majority of the viewers may not even know why we are watching a guy in 11th 2 mins down to the front and doesn’t have podium potential.

So LS certainly wins SM tri marketability but what does that really get you if you’re the PTO in the context they are trying to accomplish?

Again I think LS is great tri content. I think he's easy to market to "tri folks" but the goal and ability for the PTO to stay long term in this sport (and athletes continue to get that "pto contract") is a market share number that isn't won by just winning the "tri market" number. That's so low scale, it may not really matter to win or not. Their market share number has to be infinite bigger, and I just don't think you get that from a MOP athlete at this distance that imo has zero chance of a podium ever.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Just wanted to mention on the Pro Tri News podcast they confirmed Lionel was offered a PTO contract and turned it down.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

He meant to say that outside triathlon no one knows much about LS et al, while Gomez and Brownlee are a bit more popular beyond our tiny tri cosmos. I do agree with this, now whether this will have an overall positive benefit to the racing series..I am not sure.