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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
Yeah, if they want to make longer pads, they have to conform to the shape of the hydration as it gets in the way a bit once the front end of the pad moves too far forward. Not tough for them to do, I'm sure.

I think Speedbar, Speeco, and others are licking their chops to make custom extensions for this bike (including pedestals), and I do believe there's going to be a growing market for custom front ends moving forward. I don't think that's something a brand like Trek wants to delve into unless it's a sponsored rider. I'm being a little disingenuous and self-serving in this area, though, but I'll talk to you about that offline.

i would agree, with this caveat. i hear 2 things in the industry. i hear that 2022 bikes are getting ready to get dumped on retailers. spitloads of them. so many that the retail landscape is going to be oversaturated with bikes - too many for the market to absorb. the second thing i hear is that parts allocations are getting worse rather than better, and bikes like this speed concept are already, at launch, months out. perhaps both are true at the same time. perhaps it's thousand-dollar bikes getting dumped on retailers but we're still a year out on the upper end bikes we want. i don't know. but what i do wonder is what happens when speedbar makes a product for this bike but is frustrated because there are so few bikes getting made that they can't sell the armrest.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Jim@EROsports wrote:
Yeah, if they want to make longer pads, they have to conform to the shape of the hydration as it gets in the way a bit once the front end of the pad moves too far forward. Not tough for them to do, I'm sure.

I think Speedbar, Speeco, and others are licking their chops to make custom extensions for this bike (including pedestals), and I do believe there's going to be a growing market for custom front ends moving forward. I don't think that's something a brand like Trek wants to delve into unless it's a sponsored rider. I'm being a little disingenuous and self-serving in this area, though, but I'll talk to you about that offline.

i would agree, with this caveat. i hear 2 things in the industry. i hear that 2022 bikes are getting ready to get dumped on retailers. spitloads of them. so many that the retail landscape is going to be oversaturated with bikes - too many for the market to absorb. the second thing i hear is that parts allocations are getting worse rather than better, and bikes like this speed concept are already, at launch, months out. perhaps both are true at the same time. perhaps it's thousand-dollar bikes getting dumped on retailers but we're still a year out on the upper end bikes we want. i don't know. but what i do wonder is what happens when speedbar makes a product for this bike but is frustrated because there are so few bikes getting made that they can't sell the armrest.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Mitch@Trek] [ In reply to ]
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Mitch@Trek wrote:
Cajer wrote:
Is there going to be a white paper? Also do you have more info on what wheels were used for the aero comparison and pictures of how the bikes were setup?


No white paper for this model.

Wheels used in testing were XXX 6s with 25c R3 tires for the 2014 Speed Concept and RSL 62s with 25c R3 tires for the 2022 Speed Concept.


And the wheels is where a substantial part of the gains come from, the RSL 62s are supposedly "off the charts faster" vs the XXX 6s.

https://www.youtube.com/...pzKY6tqf9c&t=17s

By reading the fine print below the graph, one could attempt to pry apart the rolling resistance and aero drag contributions of the plotted data points.
Last edited by: marcofoils: Nov 18, 21 12:36
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Jim@EROsports wrote:
Yeah, if they want to make longer pads, they have to conform to the shape of the hydration as it gets in the way a bit once the front end of the pad moves too far forward. Not tough for them to do, I'm sure.

I think Speedbar, Speeco, and others are licking their chops to make custom extensions for this bike (including pedestals), and I do believe there's going to be a growing market for custom front ends moving forward. I don't think that's something a brand like Trek wants to delve into unless it's a sponsored rider. I'm being a little disingenuous and self-serving in this area, though, but I'll talk to you about that offline.

i would agree, with this caveat. i hear 2 things in the industry. i hear that 2022 bikes are getting ready to get dumped on retailers. spitloads of them. so many that the retail landscape is going to be oversaturated with bikes - too many for the market to absorb. the second thing i hear is that parts allocations are getting worse rather than better, and bikes like this speed concept are already, at launch, months out. perhaps both are true at the same time. perhaps it's thousand-dollar bikes getting dumped on retailers but we're still a year out on the upper end bikes we want. i don't know. but what i do wonder is what happens when speedbar makes a product for this bike but is frustrated because there are so few bikes getting made that they can't sell the armrest.

I think the beauty of a custom extension is exactly that...it's custom. They don't make it until the customer orders. All they really need to do ahead of time is design the interface with the basebar. Molds are now 3d printed, so easily and cheaply made for each client. No real overhead.

The key to a custom front end is a streamlined fit and ordering process so the consumer is not guessing at what they need. Custom only works if it matches the client's individual fit. The problem for the consumer is having confidence that their position is good enough to proceed with a custom order. In my mind, this is the challenge. If it were me :-) I would look to hand pick a few fitters in, let's just say, the US, who have proven results, provide them with a fit kit of sorts, and let them assist the client with the process. Maybe, just maybe, throw in some aero testing as part of the service. I'm just saying.

There are some decent non-custom solutions, but all are a compromise in some way for each individual athlete. For the prices people are paying, the bike should be built for them, and this includes a front end that provides a fit unique to the athlete. Price and timeline need to be within reach, but custom will always be a premium. It's not for everyone.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Mitch@Trek] [ In reply to ]
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Any chance the fit calculator mentioned above is live and I just am missing it?

Or, if someone has their hands on the "hard copy" fit guidance, my fit metrics are as follows:

Saddle height: 839 mm
Pad stack: 700 mm
Pad reach: 506 mm

Trying to figure out which of the following I should order: 1) L or XL frame, 2) mid/high/low base bar, and 3) near/mid/far tower toppers.
Last edited by: fatguytri: Nov 18, 21 12:57
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [fatguytri] [ In reply to ]
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fatguytri wrote:
Any chance the fit calculator mentioned above is live and I just am missing it?

Or, if someone has their hands on the "hard copy" fit guidance, my fit metrics are as follows:

Saddle height: 839 mm
Pad stack: 700 mm
Pad reach: 506 mm

Trying to figure out which of the following I should order: 1) L or XL frame, 2) mid/high/low base bar, and 3) near/mid/far tower toppers.

you'll wnat to take this post and put it in the operative thread for this. this is going to be tricky, because there are at least these things you need to know:

1. what is the right size bike?
2. what is the right pursuit bar?
3. what is the pedestal configuration?
4. what is the pursuit bar miter for your bike?

that pursuit bar choice, i think that assumes a given drop from pads to pursuit hand-holds. a drop in the Y axis. what is that ideal drop? often wondered this. never actually measured it. my suspicion is 70mm. but that's my guess. i'd like to hear opinions on this. but once you determine the ideal - or closest to ideal - elevation delta then you'll know how to order your pursuit bar.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Mitch@Trek] [ In reply to ]
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Mitch,

Really appreciate you being on here answering questions. I have P1 order already in. A few more questions from me:

- Does the between the arms aero bottle come with the bike? Or is that going to be available in the future?
- Does the frame aero bottle come with the bike?
- The P1 order asked you for a specific tower base. Does this mean that the bike will only come with the one you specified in the order? Or will all the various tower base sizes come with the bike?
- Do both the 0 and 14 deg angled spacers come with the bike?

blog
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
A few thoughts while I have a moment between clients...

It's a fine bike, but I don't believe it to be a home run right out of the box. I do, however, believe it can get better with time. Proprietary extensions with one option for shape is a sin, and a clear disconnect between the designers of this bike and end user, as is the lack of more and easier tilt adjustment. This should have been a lesson learned from the previous SC. To their credit, this mistake was recognized very quickly, and a fix is likely on the way sooner rather than later. There's actually a picture of a bike with the fix already installed (for extensions, I mean) on this very thread.

As an end user, I think this bike works better with Di2 rather than E-Tap solely because you can unplug the shifters at the end of the extension. Much easier to take apart that way and adjust. Sram should fix this oversight. Allow the user to unplug at the bar end shifter.

This bike is primed for custom extensions, and I would expect to see many Trek sponsored athletes on custom very soon. ;-)

And companies that make proprietary options for extensions that would require a completely different base bar isn't a sin? I should probably put that in pink, but it's a serious question considering so many companies all have different bolt patterns on the risers. How there isn't an industry standard makes no sense to me.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Mitch@Trek] [ In reply to ]
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apologies if i missed this question already after reading all of them, but is there an option just for a stock cage for a BTA bottle up front? this bike i waaay to pretty and clean to macgyver something.
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Mitch@Trek] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, what exactly comes with the frameset? Would the cockpit be available to purchase separately (I didn't see it on the website)? Or is the idea that one buys a frame and then is free to use whatever aerobars will work?

I have been collecting all the parts I need for a new bike build since February of this year, and have everything I need...which is why I'm only looking at framesets

Thanks!
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Mitch@Trek] [ In reply to ]
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First, thanks for all the news!

Do I get it right:

a) the today relased bike is not UCI legal
b) the frame is, but the cockpit is not
c) there will be a fully UCI-legal version (without IsoSpeed etc)

Feel free to correct my assumptions in case I got it wrong :)


Cheers
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:

- Does the between the arms aero bottle come with the bike? Or is that going to be available in the future?
- Does the frame aero bottle come with the bike?


According to the site (had to dig a bit), BTA bottle does not come with it, frame bottle does:

Not only does having something between your arms make you faster, but the smart design of this bottle also helps you optimize your hydration and nutrition with ease. You can quickly take a sip while in full aero position thanks to the built-in straw. A silicone port makes it super simple and fast to add drink mix concentrate or water from a refill station. Available separately. Dishwasher safe. from here: https://www.trekbikes.com/...eed-concept-storage/


And at the bottom of this page, it shows the frame bottle as a component under accessories:
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/triathlon-bikes/speed-concept/speed-concept-slr-6-etap/p/35754/?colorCode=grey_black

JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.
Last edited by: justinhorne: Nov 18, 21 14:09
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [rfhb2] [ In reply to ]
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rfhb2 wrote:
First, thanks for all the news!

Do I get it right:

a) the today relased bike is not UCI legal
b) the frame is, but the cockpit is not
c) there will be a fully UCI-legal version (without IsoSpeed etc)

Feel free to correct my assumptions in case I got it wrong :)

Cheers

you have it pretty much right. no isospeed. no storage boxes. just a big block hemi with crank windows and an AM radio.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
Mitch,

Really appreciate you being on here answering questions. I have P1 order already in. A few more questions from me:

- Does the between the arms aero bottle come with the bike? Or is that going to be available in the future?
- Does the frame aero bottle come with the bike?
- The P1 order asked you for a specific tower base. Does this mean that the bike will only come with the one you specified in the order? Or will all the various tower base sizes come with the bike?
- Do both the 0 and 14 deg angled spacers come with the bike?

Great to hear about your order - can't wait to hear how you like it once it arrives!

The BTA bottle would be separate and available on it's own.

The DT bottle will come with all Speed Concept orders.

All tower bases come with the bike, but when building to order, we'll install the right one you requested. If you need to add any of the 5mm spacers, these have a slot in them so you won't have to remove and re-cable anything. The taller bases don't have the slot which is why we ask for the size you want.

All angle spacers would also come with the bike.

Mitchell Mathews | Community Manager | Trek Bikes | @mitchmathewz
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm stealing this description, ha!

Mitchell Mathews | Community Manager | Trek Bikes | @mitchmathewz
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Blainyboy8] [ In reply to ]
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Blainyboy8 wrote:
apologies if i missed this question already after reading all of them, but is there an option just for a stock cage for a BTA bottle up front? this bike i waaay to pretty and clean to macgyver something.


There isn't a standard 2-bolt cage mount on the front like the adapter we had for the last gen SC. However, companies like X-Lab offer the adapter that would attach to the extensions and that is something you could rig up here - but honestly, it won't look or integrate as good as the BTA bottle we have specifically designed for the bike. Our BTA bottle is also designed to be quick to fill - use the DT bottle to hold your mix and then fill your BTA as you go.



Mitchell Mathews | Community Manager | Trek Bikes | @mitchmathewz
Last edited by: Mitch@Trek: Nov 19, 21 14:19
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Mitch@Trek] [ In reply to ]
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Mitch@Trek wrote:
stevej wrote:
Mitch,

Really appreciate you being on here answering questions. I have P1 order already in. A few more questions from me:

- Does the between the arms aero bottle come with the bike? Or is that going to be available in the future?
- Does the frame aero bottle come with the bike?
- The P1 order asked you for a specific tower base. Does this mean that the bike will only come with the one you specified in the order? Or will all the various tower base sizes come with the bike?
- Do both the 0 and 14 deg angled spacers come with the bike?

Great to hear about your order - can't wait to hear how you like it once it arrives!

The BTA bottle would be separate and available on it's own.

The DT bottle will come with all Speed Concept orders.

All tower bases come with the bike, but when building to order, we'll install the right one you requested. If you need to add any of the 5mm spacers, these have a slot in them so you won't have to remove and re-cable anything. The taller bases don't have the slot which is why we ask for the size you want.

All angle spacers would also come with the bike.

Thanks! This was my suspicion on the tower bases but wanted to be sure. What about the tower toppers?

Is this thing really going to arrive in 11 days?

blog
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Blainyboy8] [ In reply to ]
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Not quite what you were looking for, but Holly mentions being able to add a standard bottle cage onto the Trek BTA bottle setup if you wanted to. It's at about 45s in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ_xBJ8vU8Y
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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Sat with my buddy that owns a Trek shop looking through to see lead times and there were some that actually showed available in that timeframe. I think they were only the SLR9 ones though. SLR6 and most everything else seemed to be 300 days or so.
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
rfhb2 wrote:
First, thanks for all the news!

Do I get it right:

a) the today relased bike is not UCI legal
b) the frame is, but the cockpit is not
c) there will be a fully UCI-legal version (without IsoSpeed etc)

Feel free to correct my assumptions in case I got it wrong :)

Cheers


you have it pretty much right. no isospeed. no storage boxes. just a big block hemi with crank windows and an AM radio.

Baaah...the REAL race cars would have plexiglass fixed windows and the "radio delete" option ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [velogator] [ In reply to ]
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velogator wrote:
Thanks, what exactly comes with the frameset? Would the cockpit be available to purchase separately (I didn't see it on the website)? Or is the idea that one buys a frame and then is free to use whatever aerobars will work?

I have been collecting all the parts I need for a new bike build since February of this year, and have everything I need...which is why I'm only looking at framesets

Thanks!

The frameset will come bare, so you would need to order your cockpit components separately. For these, you would have to use the Speed Concept SLR cockpit components for what the frame was designed around. These components would be available for order through your Trek dealer!

Mitchell Mathews | Community Manager | Trek Bikes | @mitchmathewz
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
Mitch@Trek wrote:
stevej wrote:
Mitch,

Really appreciate you being on here answering questions. I have P1 order already in. A few more questions from me:

- Does the between the arms aero bottle come with the bike? Or is that going to be available in the future?
- Does the frame aero bottle come with the bike?
- The P1 order asked you for a specific tower base. Does this mean that the bike will only come with the one you specified in the order? Or will all the various tower base sizes come with the bike?
- Do both the 0 and 14 deg angled spacers come with the bike?


Great to hear about your order - can't wait to hear how you like it once it arrives!

The BTA bottle would be separate and available on it's own.

The DT bottle will come with all Speed Concept orders.

All tower bases come with the bike, but when building to order, we'll install the right one you requested. If you need to add any of the 5mm spacers, these have a slot in them so you won't have to remove and re-cable anything. The taller bases don't have the slot which is why we ask for the size you want.

All angle spacers would also come with the bike.


Thanks! This was my suspicion on the tower bases but wanted to be sure. What about the tower toppers?

Is this thing really going to arrive in 11 days?

Tower Toppers would be on their own. We equip a one standard size for "off the shelf" models or just specific size requested for a Project One order. Which I think yea, you may have a new Speed Concept at your LBS in 11 days by the looks of things - that has got to be a record this year... *mind blown*

Mitchell Mathews | Community Manager | Trek Bikes | @mitchmathewz
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [Mitch@Trek] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds good, thanks...already have a call in to my local Trek dealer.
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [mccormas] [ In reply to ]
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mccormas wrote:
People keep saying things like the new bikes are "unspectacular evolution rather than revolution." What exactly are you expecting or looking for? I'm genuinely curious?

Digitising the wind tunnel data and plugging into my IMNZ model (because that was the one I have to hand) gives an advantage for the SC3 over the SC2 for a 5hr rider in the wind conditions measured for each year below:
2021: 44s
2020: 61s
2019: 125s
2018: 138s
2017: 45s

If you get a really windy day (2018 over 20kph winds) there is a nice advantage, but not much in low wind or if the wind direction lends itself to low yaw. So it's going to be good for Kona (usually higher yaw conditions)

That said - I like this bike. It has just taken Trek a lot of work (hiding everything) to get a slim advantage over the old one.
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Re: New Trek Speed Concept [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
That said - I like this bike. It has just taken Trek a lot of work (hiding everything) to get a slim advantage over the old one.

Well...not everything...they "unhid" the braking systems ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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